Announcer: It's time now for Bible Talk. Join our hosts Gary Gibbs and John Bradshaw as they open the Bible and talk about themes that affect your life today. Stay tuned, because the next 15 minutes will deepen your understanding about God's word.
John Bradshaw: Welcome to Bible Talk where we talk about the Bible and how the Bible affects us today. I'm John Bradshaw. With me is Gary Gibbs. Hi, Gary.
Gary Gibbs: Hi, John. You know, we have been talking about many interesting topics. In this little series we've been dealing about compelling issues facing society.
John: Yes, sir.
Gary: And right now we're talking about abortion. We really got into this last time, talking about what does the Bible say about life? We discovered that life does begin at conception.
John: Certainly.
Gary: God is the one that forms us in the womb, but abortion is a major issue today. There are a lot of young ladies who are getting pregnant at a very young age. Would we expect them to deliver these children and you got children raising children?
John: Well, children raising children is never a good thing. Let's go back to the beginning. What we would expect or what we would hope is that people would find themselves or not find themselves in the situation where an abortion is an option or something to be considered. For instance, there is a solution to this. Now, we know that in some cases, one percent of abortions are the results or stem from incest or rape or something like that. Ninety-nine percent of abortions are not. Therefore, 99% of abortions could have been avoided. There is the option of contraception, however you choose to administer that and playing good old-fashioned morality. If people were not having sex outside of marriage, this would prevent a lot of unwanted pregnancies from taking place. If people who were married didn't want to have children, they could be a little more careful to avoid conception; therefore avoid the need... Need is not the word I want, but you know what I mean here, the situation where an abortion becomes an option.
Gary: John, that's fine, but given where we are right now, 70% I understand of the African-American community is having children out of wedlock.
John: That's very high.
Gary: And there's a very high abortion rate there as well and that's not to mention the other minority groups.
John: Wait a minute, even the majority group, the amount is very high.
Gary: Certainly. We don't want to peg this on the minority group, not at all.
John: Of course not. I appreciate that.
Gary: But given the fact that abortion is being done-let me back off of the abortion issue. Abortion is a solution to a lot of pregnancies, unwanted pregnancies.
John: Avoid the pregnancies.
Gary: Yeah, but people aren't avoiding it so should we go out and teach safe sex, go into the public schools and teach 13-year old girls how to use birth control?
John: The truth of the matter, the answer doesn't lie at the door of the school. The answer lies at home in the family. There's been a breakdown in the family. If somehow we can protect the family and restore the family, then we're getting people back on the right track. The responsibility is with mom and dad or mom or dad or grandma and grandpa, whoever is in the home and the guardian of these children having children. That's where the responsibility is. After that, perhaps the school has a role. Just where you go with that is a little bit of a sensitive issue. The church has a role. The church ought to be teaching morality. Abstinence is far more than an old-fashioned idea. It's a very good idea when you consider unwanted pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases. A raft of social problems that arise would be avoided if we taught people self control and the ideal God's standard of sex within the confines of marriage.
There's nothing wrong with sex rightly looked upon, but outside of marriage, it only leads in a terrible direction and only brings problems if not in the short term, then in the long term. Outside of marriage, it is contrary to the will of Almighty God, a loving God who provided marriage so that people could express intimacy and express love in an appropriate, healthy, positive way.
Gary: Abstinence education actually has become more popular recently.
John: It's a good thing.
Gary: Actually, some people are correlating that with a drop in the teen pregnancy rate as well.
John: The solution is never abortion. We mentioned last time, 43 or so percent of women under the age of 45 had abortions according to one survey published in the LA Times if I'm not mistaken. That's a tremendous rate so the chances are that there are many people listening today who've had abortions or being party to them. We're not mentioning this to be critical or condemnatory in any way at all. God loves people who've been through the trauma, the difficulty of abortion and He wants to bring comfort and peace into that life, an assurance that this is a sin that's being forgiven. But abortion as a solution?
I have a friend named Anne. When Anne was 16 years old, she conceived and gave birth to a baby girl she named...let's just say Anne's daughter. Anne's daughter, when she became 16 years of age, conceived as well.
She got pregnant at 16. Her mother said to her, "If you want to consider an abortion, I want you to know that I'll support you." Her daughter was astonished, shocked! She looked at her mother in disbelief and said, "But mom, you didn't have an abortion. That's why I'm here." The subject there was so clearly demonstrated - an abortion that would have ended a life, a productive and a happy life.
This daughter made a mistake, but she wasn't willing to repeat or compound that by making another mistake. Ending a life was not going to be the solution.
Gary: No, it never is the solution at all. There are so many parents out there who are childless and they would love to adopt a child and yet these children are being killed at a million a year.
John: That's an astonishing rate.
Gary: And people are going overseas to adopt. They're going to China and other places to adopt when these children could find happy homes right here in this country.
John: That's right. Hey, before we go any further, I need to point out. I just checked the note I had here. That 43% thing wasn't from the LA Times. LA Times survey that I was thinking of said that 53% of Americans consider abortion to be murder. That was the LA Times figure. There's something else I want to say too, Gary. I know you've got a thought there. We've got a great offer here on Bible Talk. In conjunction with today's broadcast, if you'd like more study information, if you'd like something that's really going to lift you up, help you see the love of God, with a little booklet called the High Cost of the Cross, dealing with the love of God is revealed in Jesus Christ's great sacrifice he made for us when he died.
So contact us. Get the address. Get the phone number. Call or write and ask for High Cost of the Cross.
Gary: John, when I first encountered this abortion debate, it was then at a time when people were blowing up abortion clinics. We've seen over the last several years, people in the name of God killing abortion doctors. What is the solution for the church? What should Christians and people who have moral convictions on this do within the society that has legalized the death of 40 million unborn innocents?
John: I want to stress this is a complex subject, and I don't think there are any easy, spiffy, pat answers that cover everything. What's the solution? How should the church be involved? I once saw a sign on somebody's front lawn. It said pray to end abortion. I think that was wonderful advice. I'm not saying that's the only thing, but let's start there. Let's start by seeking the face of God and pleading with God for these innocent ones and for the women and the men involved in this who are going to carry scars physically and emotionally.
Let's be honest, a lot of women who experience abortions end up with tremendous physical difficulties.
Gary: Definitely.
John: There are a number who died because of the abortion process, a great number. So let us pray to God and seek the face of Almighty God who formed these ones in the womb.
Gary: John, there was a lady who asked me one time when she said, "What are you doing about the death of a million babies a year?" I said, "I don't believe in blowing up clinics and killing doctors." She said, "Yeah, but what are you doing?" She was marching in some protest and I said, 'I don't believe in that." The way I looked at this whole issue was I defined myself as to what I didn't believe in. I didn't have anything I did do in favor of the unborn. I wasn't doing anything. I didn't believe in abortion, but I wasn't doing anything for the unborn.
Then I realized there are so many unwed pregnant teenage girls out there who need financial help and there are all sorts of practical things that we can do for people in this situation that can facilitate them getting through the problems that scare them and cause them to go to the abortion clinics at the same time.
John: Sure, I think if somebody wants to pick up a placard and march around the block or up and down the street in the right way and under the right circumstances, that need not be a bad thing or a wrong thing. It depends on what floats your boat. I'm going to leave that door open for the Christian who wants to do that. The church should have a voice on this because it's something that stems and grows right out of the Bible. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." The Bible promotes morality. It promotes absolutely abstinence outside of marriage. This is something where the church would at least have a voice and I think a loud voice.
Gary: Should Christians be forcing their morality upon the rest of society? I mean we're talking women's rights here, aren't we?
John: Oh, yeah.
Gary: And we're talking women's choice. I mean that's how the argument is framed.
John: Sure.
Gary: What would you say to that?
John: Well, I would say that should I so desire, I've got a right to walk up that street with a placard. I'm not saying I'm going to do that. I'm not telling other people to do that. I'm just saying that there are some who might like to be a little more open. A little agitation may go a long way. Women's rights? Wait a second. We've got the right to freedom of speech. You don't have to go forcing your morality on anybody. The fact that you are saying to society, "Here's something I believe in," you can do that appropriately. I'm not recommending any ways to do it. Bible Talk is not for that, but if you've got a voice and if you want to exercise that in behalf of what you believe the Bible is saying, there's no law against that in this country and I thank God for that.
Gary: Should Christians though, exercise their vote and their influence to get people into office who are like judges, who will reverse Roe v. Wade, pass laws against Roe v. Wade and to illegalize abortion?
John: That's a very good question. I think the answer is yes, if that's what a Christian feels compelled to do. If I have a choice to vote for somebody who's going to support abortion or I could vote somebody who's going to be against abortion and perhaps save a portion of those million lives a year that are lost to abortion, why in the world would I not choose to support that politician who's going to do something to stem the modern-day holocaust that we experience here in the United States?
Gary: Doesn't Jesus though, say, "Render under Caesar what is Caesar's and under God what is God's?" You just let Caesar take care of the laws of the land and you live your life more alive.
John: Absolutely partly right. If Caesar has laws that are in harmony with the law of God, I have no problem with that, but when they flagrantly oppose the law of God, there's an appropriate time and appropriate way for the Christian to say, "Now, wait a minute, if I've got a part to play in electing the next Caesar, then perhaps I ought to be judicious in the way I cast my vote."
Gary: You know, whenever I think, John, that we don't value the life of someone who doesn't have a right to speak for themselves, one day we're going to find we're going to be in a place where people don't value our life.
John: Perhaps that's right.
Gary: This thing can transition from the unborn to the elderly. We're going to get ready and have an elderly boom here where there are going to be more elderly people than there are working young people to support them eventually. You look at the next 100 years, like 2040. It's going to take one ½ to two working individuals to support every one retired person.
John: There's going to be a lot of elderly people whose rights ought to be taken care of. Somebody's got to speak for the ones who can't speak for themselves.
Gary: That's right.
John: We can talk about a woman's rights. Wait a minute, the child has rights, right? But who's looking after the rights of that child? A woman's right to choose when the baby in the womb has no right to choose?
Gary: That's the role of government to protect the rights of everybody and especially those who don't have a voice.
John: That's right. We don't want to condemn anybody, do we? We want to encourage people to get in line with God here, take any of the difficulties or struggles or pain or hassles with this issue that you have straight to God. Watch God work for you. We're out of time. It comes too quickly. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again next time on Bible Talk.
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