BAL 2025, Ep04 - Who Was Jacob Wrestling With ?

Doug Batchelor: Hello, friends. Welcome to "Bible Answers Live." Would you like to hear an amazing fact? Theodore Roosevelt, the 26th president, was probably among the most remarkable US leaders. After all, you don't get your head on Mount Rushmore without a good reason. Roosevelt came from a wealthy family, but his character was forged through many difficult experiences. His father, who he loved very much, died before he was 20. Then Roosevelt survived the tragedy of losing his young wife and his own mother to illness on the same day in 1884. He survived malaria, exploring a tributary of the Amazon, and a year hunting in the wilds of Africa. He survived an extremely dangerous military charge in Cuba in 1898, for which he won the Congressional Medal of Honor, and he survived an assassination attempt in 1912 at point blank range, and he went from the assassination attempt bleeding, and delivered a speech. In 1906, Roosevelt was the first president to win the Nobel Peace Prize, persuading Japan and Russia to end a conflict.

Roosevelt had a virtually photographic memory. Historians say he could recite long sections of poetry verbatim over a decade after he read the passages. Roosevelt was also a prolific writer, authoring 35 books, including an autobiography, and writing an estimated 150,000 letters. The president continued his hobby of boxing well into his presidency. Roosevelt was blind in one eye after a boxing injury in the White House, so he switched to jiu-jitsu instead. The popular teddy bear was named after President Theodore Roosevelt because he refused to shoot an old bear. Teddy Roosevelt is recognized as a key figure in creating the US National Park System and was also the father of the modern US Navy. He sent the American Navy on a worldwide tour in 1907 as a show of strength. Probably his ultimate achievement was connecting the eastern and western hemispheres by building the Panama Canal. Even his opponents agreed he was a man of remarkable energy, determination, and courage.

Now, he was not a perfect man, Pastor Ross. I think his daughter said that he had a little bit of pride, and he wanted to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral, the center of attention, but he was a very brilliant man and a very courageous man. He was somewhat fearless. And you know, I think about when Moses was dying, he encouraged Joshua to be courageous. Leaders need courage. Christians need courage in this day and age. I think about the verse when God spoke to Joshua after Moses died, and this is Joshua 1, verse 9. Actually, you can read verse 5 through 9, but this is just verse 9: "Have not I commanded you? Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, or dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go." What a wonderful promise. Don't be afraid. Jesus said, "I am with you to the end of the world." Friends, maybe you are intimidated by the devil, by sin, by friends that are not a good influence, and you'd like more courage to stand for your convictions. We've got a free offer that talks about that.

Jëan Ross: We do. The book that we have this evening that is our free gift to anyone who calls and asks is called, "Compromise, Conformity, and Courage: Biblical Principles for Living a Courageous Christian Life." If you'd like to receive that book, all you need to do is call and ask. The number is 800-835-6747. That is our resource phone line. Again, it's 800-835-6747. Ask for the book, it's called, "Compromise, Conformity, and Courage." You can also dial #250 with your smartphone, say "Bible Answers Live," and then you can ask for it that way as well.

Well, Pastor Doug, we've got a number of folks who are standing by with their Bible questions, but before we go to the phone lines, let's start with prayer. Dear Father, we are so glad that we have this opportunity once again to be able to study Your Word. The Bible is truth, and Jesus said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free." Thank You, Father, for this opportunity to study together, and we ask Your blessing in Jesus's name, amen.

Doug: Amen.

Jëan: Our first caller this evening, we've got Glen and Linda listening in Ohio. Glen, Linda, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Glen: Thank you for taking my call and welcome from Bethel, Ohio.

Doug: Thank you.

Glen: You know, there are those who believe that three, four, maybe as many as five of the trumpets of Revelation have already been blown, like the First World War and Second World War, and Chernobyl, to mention a few. But my question is, the trumpet of Matthew 24, the trumpet of Thessalonians 4, and the seventh trumpet of Revelation, are they the same trumpet? That's my question.

Doug: Oh, okay. Well, the trumpets that are spoken of in Matthew chapter 24 and in 1 Thessalonians is really talking about that trump that calls forth the dead to life. Now, the seven trumpets that you find in Revelation, they're-- now, keep in mind, Revelation is a panorama of church history from the First Coming, when the book is given, to the Second Coming. We're what we call historicists in our interpretation. So, you are correct that these trumpets have been being fulfilled in segments of history. Pastor Ross, yeah, one thing I've heard is, it's very simplistic, but you've got a number of sevens in Revelation. You've got seven churches, seven seals, seven trumpets, and there's, of course seven plagues. But the seven churches kind of give a religious history from the First to the Second Coming. The seven seals, more of a political history; and the seven trumpets, something of a military history. And so, the last trumpet is the final battle where Christ comes. Keep in mind seven trumpets were blown before Joshua took the Promised Land, and as the seventh trumpet is blown, and then Jesus, our Joshua, he comes and recaptures this world and creates a new promised land, so to speak. So, they are different, but I think you've just finished some Daniel lessons, huh? You have one on the trumpets.

Jëan: We do, we do have some stuff on the trumpets. Not available here yet, but really, you find the trumpets in Daniel, sorry, Revelation chapter 8 and 9. And as you mentioned, Pastor Doug, they do emphasize certain issues of judgment or war. And according to Bible prophecy in Revelation in particular, we're living in that seventh trumpet even now with the various current events, things happening in the world. Under the seventh trump, but it says the nations were angry and time of the dead that they should be judged, talks about war and just anger. Well, we see that all happening in our world today, and that leads into Second Coming of Christ.

Doug: That's right. Well, thank you so much, Glen and Linda. And we appreciate your call.

Jëan: We've got Elizabeth listening in Arizona. Elizabeth, welcome to "Bible Answers Live." You're on the air.

Elizabeth: Hi, my question concerns Malachi chapter 4, verse 6. This passage terrifies me.

Doug: Okay, let me read that for our friends. I'm going to read 5 and 6 because they kind of go together. Well, verse 4 says: "Remember the law of Moses, which I commanded him in Mount Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes of judgment--the statutes and judgment. Behold, I send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord."

Now let's stop there real quick. Both these two characters, and this is the last chapter in the last book of the Old Testament. If you're in your Bibles and you turn the page, now you're in the New Testament. In the next book of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Moses and Elijah appear to Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration when he's with Peter, James, and John. And Jesus said John the Baptist, to some extent, was a fulfillment of a return of Elijah. But he wasn't the final example. He said Elijah will come, and Elijah has come. So, John was at least a partial fulfillment who paved the way for a great revival. But before the Lord comes again, it says, "He'll turn the hearts of the fathers to the children," now in Malachi chapter 4, verse 6, "and the hearts of the children to the fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse." Well, this is telling us that, for one thing, Jesus said in the last days, the love of many will grow cold, and that means even love in families where, you know, you see epidemic divorce and a lot of families are growing up without the father.

The message of Elijah is going to bring revival and more familial love into the home. But it's beyond that when it says, "The hearts of the fathers to the children," you know, that it seems like there's always been a generation gap. You can read about Plato and Aristotle talking about the generation gap in their days. So, it seems like the older people that have a little more wisdom, they just aren't able to connect with the younger, and the younger think the older ones are stodgy and they're just too slow. But it's talking about the younger believing in the teachings of the older, the younger people returning to the faith of the fathers, and the fathers listening to the energy of the younger. So, there's also that happening here. He says, "Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse." Well, don't let that frighten you. We know that when Jesus comes, the dead in Christ are going to rise, the righteous are caught up. When the world is struck at the Second Coming, the saved don't have to worry about that.

Jëan: All right, thank you, Elizabeth. We've got Alan in California. Alan, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Alan: Good evening, gentlemen. Calling from Bakersfield, California.

Doug: Thanks for calling.

Alan: All right, my question is regards Proverbs 13:22. The back half of that says: "The wealth of the wicked is reserved for the righteous." Now, is the wealth obtained illegally or immorally or both, or what's the wealth and who's the wicked?

Doug: Yeah, okay. Well, wicked, of course, are anybody who is living a life of rebellion against God and disobeying God, they're living lives of sin. And wicked is actually a word kind of reserved a little more for those not struggling with temptation, but those who have given over to it. They have no problem stealing to get wealth or being unscrupulous and--or grinding down, James talks about the rich who have ground down the poor to get their riches and taken advantage of people. And so, people who accumulate wealth like that, they think they're going to pass it on to their heritage, but often what happens is, it's lost and the righteous somehow end up getting it. So, it's just saying that the posterity of the wicked, the wealth does not go to them, those who have gotten it, illegal gain, so to speak.

Jëan: And I think it's also referring to the wise, those who have wisdom, self-control, who plan, who organize, well, they usually have something to leave to their children. But those who are just living for self, it seems that they squander their money and there's nothing left. We've heard of all kinds of stories of people that have won a tremendous amount of money, maybe they won the lottery or something. And in a few years, they're broke. They've spent it all.

Doug: Or in debt.

Jëan: They've just wasted away their money. And I think that's the point that's being emphasized here versus wisdom and just foolish selfishness. All right, thank you, Alan. Quentin in Florida. Quentin, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Quentin: Hello.

Doug: Hi.

Quentin: Yes, I wanted to know if, in the Bible, does it talk about unfallen worlds, and if so, did Satan tempt them as well when he got kicked out of heaven or was it just Earth?

Doug: Yes to both questions. Are there worlds besides our planet? Well, yeah, God, you know, God has lived for eternity. The idea that He didn't do anything or create anything until He got to our world is kind of, I think limited thinking. You can look in the Bible. Let me give you some scripture. It says in Hebrews chapter 1: "God, who at various times in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has spoken in these last days to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things," now listen, "through whom He made the worlds." He didn't make just the world, but He made worlds. And you can read in Revelation about everyone in heaven and Earth. And then in Job it talks about there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. Satan came and God said, "Where'd you come from?" "I came from the Earth." Well, they're having a meeting somewhere in heaven. They're not on Earth.

So, yeah, God has unfallen creatures. Did the devil tempt them? Yeah, I think everyone had an opportunity to listen to Satan's protests against God. And the devil made his case and tried to tempt them, but the only world that fell is our world, and it's like the parable where Jesus said a man had 100 sheep, and they're all safe in the fold, but he left the fold to look for that one lost sheep. That's our world. That's us. And so, Christ came down, become one of us to save us.

Jëan: You know, we got a study guide that talks about the origin of evil. Where did the devil come from? It doesn't directly talk about, I think, the other intelligent beings, but it does talk about the angels that had an opportunity to choose who they would obey. It's called, "Did God Create a Devil? The Origin of Evil." And for those of you who have never received that study guide, if you want to call, we'll be happy to send it to you. It's 800-835-6747, and you can just ask for that study guide. It's called, "Did God Create a Devil?" You can also dial #250 on your smartphone, say "Bible Answers Live," and you can ask for it by name.

Doug: You know, I was just also thinking, I've got a YouTube. If anyone just goes to YouTube, "Is There Life on Unfallen Worlds?" or "Did God Create Other Worlds?" And there's a whole bunch of scriptures we give on that.

Jëan: All right. Andi in Georgia. Andi, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Andi: Hello. Hi, pastors.

Doug: Hi, how are you doing?

Andi: Well, my question is, why do men always get, like, all the glory for all the important stuff they do, but why not women in the Bible?

Doug: You are correct that the Bible is mostly what you call patriarchal, and that things go through the fathers. It often tells about the birth of the sons, but not always the daughters. But you do have people like Ruth, who's a hero, and Esther who's a hero, and Sarah and Rahab and so there are women.

Jëan: And then, of course, in the New Testament, you get to Mary, who is a hero in the Bible, you have—

Doug: She's the first one to see the resurrected Jesus.

Jëan: Yeah, Mary Magdalene. You've got Mary the mother of Jesus, yup. And then you've got Elizabeth, which is the mother of John the Baptist. So, yes, women are spoken of quite a bit in the Bible, although, you know, women weren't going into battle in the Old Testament. Although they did--you have Miriam, the sister of Moses, so even all the way back there—

Doug: Yeah, she saved her brothers.

Jëan: That's right.

Doug: Good question. Thank you, Andi.

Jëan: All right, we've got Steve in Oregon. Steve, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Steve: Hello, can you hear me okay?

Doug: We do, loud and clear.

Steve: All right, thank you. First, I wanted to ask if you ever had the opportunity to meet Fred Cornforth up here in the Northwest?

Doug: You know, that name sounds very familiar. And so there's a possibility I have, but, yeah, as I get older, my name files start to get fuzzy.

Steve: Well, he was a true messenger of the gospel in the Pacific Northwest here, so.

Doug: I probably met him because I've been traveling North America for 40 years and I did some camp meetings up there, so I think I probably did.

Steve: My question is that Revelation 14:20, the end of the chapter, "And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and the blood came up out of the winepress up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs." And my question is why 1600 furlongs? Why not 7 furlongs or 144 furlongs or 40 furlongs? There's so many numbers that are so prevalent in the Bible.

Doug: Right, well, and 16 is also a number that is one of the numbers that is divisible in the Bible. You can read about in Isaiah, it says, "I've trodden the winepress alone, and the peoples, and no one was with me, for I've trodden them in my anger, and I trampled them in my fury." That's Isaiah 63:3. So, Revelation, when you read about it, is referencing something in the Old Testament prophets. Pastor Ross, you got any thoughts on that?

Jëan: Yeah, maybe just it represents complete destruction of the wicked if you read through the whole passage. It's talking about the wicked finally being destroyed at the end of the 1000 years. It talks about them being destroyed. The winepress is trodden outside the city, that is the new Jerusalem, and they mount their attack upon the New Jerusalem. Of course, fire comes down and devours them. So, this is very symbolic. The 1600 furlongs, people have wondered what that could be and it is interesting, the actual number there. Someone suggested there is a reference in the apocryphal book of Enoch, it's not in the Bible, but it's a book where it describes the slaughter of the wicked and describes their blood as being a river. And it would go all the way up to the bridle of the horse and even covering the chariot behind the horse. So it's just this very symbolic picture of complete destruction of the wicked. The wicked shall be no more after this.

Doug: And it tells us that the city of God has 4 sides and it's 4 square and 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 is 16. So they're surrounding the city of God, yeah.

Jëan: Oh, that's good. All right, well, thank you, Steve. Great question. We've got Giovanni in Idaho. Giovanni, welcome to the program.

Giovanni: Hi, good evening pastors. How are you?

Doug: Doing well, thank you for calling.

Giovanni: Excellent. All right, my question is, in Matthew chapter 2, verse 16, in the New King James Version, it says Herod put to death all the male children, but in the King James Version, it says he put to death "all" the children, and to me that seems to be kind of a significant difference, and I was just wondering which one is more accurate.

Doug: Well, I'd say the King-- the New King James is more accurate, and I think what they're doing is there are different words that are used for children in Greek, and you can have, you got--you got niño in Spanish, and that would be a boy. Niña would be a little girl. And so, I think in the Greek this might be in some manuscripts a--it's the masculine which would make sense because they're looking for a coming king and it was a male and the Jews did not have any female kings or queens that were ordained and so Herod thought let's kill all the male children like the king of Egypt who killed all the male children that were born or tried to throw them all in the river.

Jëan: All right, thank you. We do have a book talking about the Bible and various Bible translations and manuscript. It's called, "The Ultimate Resource." And anyone wanting to learn more about the Bible, where it came from, you can get the book and read it. It's called--just call and ask. It's 800-835-6747. The book is called, "The Ultimate Resource." Also, you can dial #250 on your smartphone. We've got Cami in California. Cami, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Cami: Good evening, Pastors. Thank you for taking my phone call this evening.

Doug: We're glad you called. And your question tonight?

Cami: My question is dealing with 1 Samuel chapter 16 and verse 14. Could you please shed light on that or—

Doug: Yeah, let me read it for our friends that are listening. It says, "But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the Lord troubled him." And you would think--you might be wondering, why would God take away his Spirit and send a diabolical or an evil spirit? You know what it says just before that. It says that "the Spirit of the Lord," if you look in verse 13, "Samuel took his horn of oil and anointed him," David, "in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward." And you never hear where God took the Spirit away from David. In fact, David prays in Psalm 51, "Take not thy Spirit from me," as it was taken from him before him, he's implying. But Saul kept rejecting God. And when he drove away the Spirit of God, God's Spirit is light and good. And when you reject light and good, what happens when light goes out? Automatically darkness comes in. So it wasn't that God said, "Okay, all the devils come on, take over Saul." When God was driven away, the natural occurrence is for the evil and darkness to come in.

Jëan: All right. Thank you, Cami. Well, we've got Julie in California. Julie, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Julie: Hi, Pastors, and thank you for taking my call. My question is Isaiah 19:18 through 25. I'm just wondering, is this passage prophetic? I mean, it talks about then the Lord will be known to Egypt in that day and all this. And in verse 25, it says, "Blessed is Egypt, my people." So, I thought--I always understood that Egypt was cursed and that it was a symbol for sin, you know, like in Exodus 20 where God says, "I brought you out of the land of Egypt." In other words, "I saved you from your sin. So now that I've saved you from your sin, please do these things," okay, so I'm just curious about this passage.

Doug: Yeah, well, it's a great prophecy. I think it's talking about the future. Egypt has sort of a mixed history with Israel. Keep in mind that Abraham married an Egyptian named Hagar, that when there was a famine they always went to Egypt, that it was in Egypt, Israel grew to a great nation. Now one of the kings came along, you know, God blessed Joseph in Egypt. He became great in Egypt. An evil king came along and then oppressed them. But first one that Solomon married was a daughter of Egypt. So there's an interesting relationship. Typically, Egypt means the world. God said, "Don't go back to Egypt for horses," and there was, you know, king of Egypt killed Josiah, one of the great kings of Israel. So, there was, like, an off and on relationship. This is a prophecy saying the day will come when those who had been their enemies are going to embrace the Lord and that even a place like Egypt, they'd be calling on God. That partially happened with the Jews in Alexandria. There was a great Jewish settlement there, but I think the biggest fulfillment of this is in the future when the world, the whole earth is full of the knowledge of God, even Egypt.

Jëan: Okay, next caller that we have is Bob in Kentucky. Bob, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Bob: Hi, good evening, gentlemen. My question this evening is, who did Jacob wrestle with in Genesis? I've heard different theories, and my pastor even mentioned that it might have been the Lord Jesus. I don't know if they say it was God and--or an angel of God.

Doug: Yeah, it's an interesting story. So, it says a man appeared and he's wrestling with this man. Later, he realizes it's a supernatural being because he touches him and says, "Let me go." And Jacob says, "I'm not going to let you go unless you bless me," because he thought, "This is the Lord." And then later Jacob says, "For I have seen God." Well, no man has seen the Father, but Christ often appeared to the patriarchs, and so this would be a Christophany where Jesus saw Christ before His incarnation. And so many believe this was the pre-incarnate Christ.

Jëan: And you have Jacob here representing this wrestling, representing the people of God. You go back a little bit in the history of Jacob, when he was fleeing from his home, and he prayed and there was a ladder that he saw in the dream representing Christ. And the promise was, Lord, if You bring me back here in peace. And so, during this time of wrestling, he's claiming those promise, claiming the promise that God had forgiven him, that God had accepted him. His faith was tested. Esau was coming with an army to destroy him. Similar to the experience of God's people at the end of time, where they will have to claim the promises of God and hold on to Him by faith.

Doug: Amen.

Jëan: I'm looking at the clock, Pastor Doug. I don't think we have time for another caller. We're coming up on a break here in just a few moments. "Bible Answers Live" is by no means over. We just got started. If you have a Bible question, the number to call is 800-463-7297. That'll bring you here into the studio with your Bible question. Somebody will answer the phone and just stand by, and we will try to get as many callers in just as much time as we can.

Doug: Yeah, don't go away. More Bible questions coming. Meantime, click on AmazingFacts.org, look at the website. Be back in just a moment.

Announcer: Stay tuned. "Bible Answers Live" will return shortly.

Female: We grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic school for 9 years. A group of my friends and I would go to church every Sunday. I think as a young child I had a closer relationship with God than I did as a young adult. I never really forgot Him, but I did. From high school, I went to college and then after college I went into the dance world and became a dancer. Got married late in my life, but at the right time. He also grew up as a Catholic.

My husband worked as a software salesperson in New York City. We woke up early that morning of 9/11 and I said to him, I said, "Why are you not going to the city today?" He says, "Look at this day, it's beautiful." He says, "I really want to spend the day with you and the girls." Just as that first plane hit the towers, he dropped to his knees and he said, "Thank God, because I was supposed to be up in the second building today." So, we changed our lives. We found our place in the mountains in West Virginia.

My eldest child was born on Christmas Day, so that was always very special until Christmas Day 2 years ago, my husband died on our kitchen floor. My youngest child and I worked for about an hour, doing CPR, but living so remotely as where we live, there was 8 inches of snow on the ground. The emergency vehicles could not get to us. We lost him that day.

Ten days after my husband died, the gray water system was pouring out underneath the house. I called the plumber up and I asked him if he remembered my husband, and he says, "Oh, I do remember speaking with him." I said, "Well, he passed away on Christmas Day." And he says, "I'll be over tonight." The whole underneath the house was replaced. Said, "How much do I owe you for today?" He says, "Let me think. Nothing." And I just hugged him, and he says--he says, "How would you like to come to church on Saturday?" And I said, "Saturday?"

We ended up going to church on Saturday and his wife gave us the Amazing Facts Bible Studies, and we couldn't get enough of it. When the girls and I heard the story of Doug Batchelor and "The Richest Caveman," his story inspired all of us that, you know, you can walk with God and talk with God and have a personal relationship with Him. The girls and I had decided that we were all going to get baptized together. That was a beautiful moment that I wish their dad was there because I think he would be really proud that they chose to give their hearts to Jesus that day. I want to say thank you to Pastor Doug for all the facts that he shares and his knowledge. It has helped all of us grow closer to God.

Announcer: You're listening to "Bible Answers Live" where every question answered provides a clearer picture of God and His plan to save you. So, what are you waiting for? Get practical answers about the good book for a better life today. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. If you'd like answers to your Bible-related questions on the air, please call us next Sunday between 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. Pacific time. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now, let's rejoin our hosts for more "Bible Answers Live."

Doug: Welcome back, listening friends, to "Bible Answers Live." We're going to be talking about the Word of God, and we welcome your Bible questions. Lines open, call, 800-GOD-SAYS, that's 800-463-7297. And we're going to go to the phones in a minute. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Jëan: My name is Jëan Ross, and we've got Simon standing by, listening in Louisiana. Simon, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Simon: Hey, nice to meet you guys.

Doug: Thank you.

Simon: My question is from 1 Peter chapter 3, verse 18 and 19. Sorry, verse 19 and 20. The question is, who are the souls that Jesus preached to?

Doug: Well, now keep in mind, some people think that means that Jesus, when He's on the cross, didn't really die, but that He entered another realm of limbo or purgatory, where He preached to people who died during the flood, to give them another chance. This is not at all what this verse is talking about. You have to back up and read a little bit. Verse 18. Let me read it. This is, by the way, 1 Peter 3:18. "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit," capital S. By whom? The Spirit. He went and preached to the spirits in prison, so Christ through the Spirit preached to the spirits in prison, who were disobedient. When did this happen? "When the divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah." God's longsuffering, the Spirit preaching, days of Noah. Peter is referring to Genesis 6, verse 3, where God says, "My Spirit will not always strive with man. His days will be 120 years."

Through that same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead, God spoke to the people imprisoned by sin. Spirits imprisoned by sin. It's not talking about ghosts in prison. It's talking about people imprisoned by sin back in the days of Noah when He was longsuffering with them. It's not Jesus going down to Hades somewhere and preaching.

Jëan: All right. Thank you, Simon. We've got Nathan in Canada. Nathan, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Nathan: Good evening, Pastor Doug. I love your content. I've been listening to you for many years.

Doug: Thank you, Nathan. We're glad you called.

Nathan: I have a question. Past few years I've been, just to put it short, I've been struggling with laziness and just feeling depressed. I mean, I used to be like very faithful and believing, I used to believe in God, but, you know, recently, maybe since I went to university, I've been really doubting that. It crippled my productivity, like being able to work and enjoy what I do, has just been like crushed. I missed out on some opportunities in my university. It, you know, I've just been managing. I didn't--I haven't really had any aspiration or any, like, grand meaning, you know. It's just something that, you know, it made me depressed and lazy. I feel optimistic and I want to return back to that. I just don't know with doubt, having to do with doubt, the depression that hangs down.

Doug: Well, let me give you a few thoughts. First of all, some depression can be caused by things physiological or chemical. You can be sleepy and it can bring on depression, if you're not getting enough rest. You can have some chemical imbalance or in the diet that can bring on depression. Some people, if they have a lot of sugar in their diet, the high from the sugar then brings on a low later. So, it could be physiological. It could be a spiritual battle. Now, the devil will take advantage of our physical weakness. That's when he came to tempt Christ when He was hungry. So, if you already have some physical problem, the devil will try and make the most of it, and it can be--compound your depression. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." The more you hear the Word of God, a little hearing, a little faith, more hearing, more faith.

God's Word is encouraging. The Bible says in Romans chapter 5, "When we had no strength, Christ died for us." And so, remember that He died for you when you're weak. He says, "Take My yoke upon you." Surrender to Jesus. Believe that He died for you, that He came to you, that He wants you to be saved. He loves you desperately. And the more you look at Him, the more you'll love Him. The more you love Him, the more excited you'll be about serving Him. And that's the greatest motivation in life, whether you're doing it at work or full-time ministry. When you fall in love with the Lord, you got a bright future and you're going to be wanting to share that with others.

Jëan: Absolutely, and of course, it's always good to share your faith. That kind of helps motivate you and encourage you too.

Doug: Now, we have a book called, "When the Brook Dries Up," that deals with discouragement. We'll send you a free copy.

Jëan: The number to call for that is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book, it's called, "When the Brook Dries Up." Again, that's 800-835-6747. You can also dial #250 on your smartphone and just ask for it by name. Robert in Nevada. Robert, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Robert: Thank you. Hello, Dr--Pastor Doug, Pastor Ross.

Doug: Thank you.

Robert : My question is this, I have heard that during the days of Jesus, that wine could be dehydrated when they went on trips. And I wonder if that somehow would explain the miracle of Jesus turning the water into wine at the wedding feast, that's in the Bible.

Doug: That what they did, yeah, when they filled those cisterns with water, it had dehydrated wine in them, kind of like Kool-Aid at the bottom, and then it turned into wine. Is that kind of the idea?

Robert: Yes, yes, yes.

Doug: Yeah, no, it's pretty clear from the text that they were out of wine, dehydrated or otherwise, but it wasn't fully dehydrated. It used to be a syrup, actually. It wasn't like freeze-dried. And--but no, they were out of wine. He told the servants, "Fill the pitchers with water," and all the servants knew there was nothing in those pitchers but water. And He said, "Now pour it out." And it wasn't only wine. He didn't say, "Oh, this is made from concentrate. It's no good." The head of the feast said, "This is the best wine. Where'd you get fresh wine?" They could taste that it was fresh wine, and it wasn't the wine season. So, it was a miracle. Matter of fact, John says this was the first miracle. If Jesus had only added water to dehydrated grape juice, then it wouldn't have been called a miracle. It would have been mixing concentrate.

Jëan: Yeah, the Bible also says that the sticks--the six stone water jugs that Jesus used, that were used for purifying of the Jews. So those jugs weren't used for wine, they were actually used for water and purification of cooking utensils and the like. So, it was profound. And that's probably why the governor of the feast said that. He said, "You kept the best to last." So probably up to that point, they had some sort of dehydrated kind of syrupy stuff. But then, wow, the grape juice that Jesus made was so fresh. They were amazed, "Where did you get this from?"

Doug: Yeah, it's interesting. The first miracle of Jesus, He turns water to wine and He gives human--humanity at a marriage fresh wine. And of course, Christ, the first thing He does is Adam and Eve, He's at a marriage, right? And then, the last thing Jesus does, He tastes sour wine that is given to Him on a pole that we gave Him. And so, He gives us pure, we give Him sour, He trades places with us. It's like a blood transfusion. He takes our bad blood and He gives us His pure blood. So, the whole gospel's in there and it was a miracle.

Jëan: All right, thank you, Robert. Next caller that we have is Aiden in Arizona. Aiden, welcome to the program.

Aiden: Oh hello, Pastors.

Doug: Hi.

Aiden: Hello. Hey, my question is in Galatians chapter 4, verse number 6. Verse 6, if you'd like to read that.

Doug: Okay, "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit into His Son--in your hearts, crying out, 'Abba, Father.'" Would you like me to explain that?

Aiden: Yeah, yeah, the spirit of his sons into your hearts. That's one of my questions.

Doug: Yeah, well, you know, the--Christ sent the Holy Spirit. And the goodness of God leads us to call out for God. And it's a--He's talking about a father-son love relationship. Abba was a very simple form. It's like Papa, and it's, you know, God's--Jesus said, "When you pray, say, 'Our Father.'" That was profoundly intimate for the Jews to say, "Our Father." And that, Jesus is telling us that the Father loves you, not just the Son, but the Father so loved the world He gave His Son. And so, it's here in this verse, you've got the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all in that one verse.

Jëan: Does that help, Aiden?

Aiden: Yeah, that does, because this is a part of the New Testament, right?

Doug: Yes, Galatians.

Aiden: Yes, yes, and so that's what I was wondering, yes, because I was just wondering there on the New Testament where He said He would write it in our hearts.

Doug: Yes, that's part of the new covenant.

Aiden: Yeah, it's part of the new covenant. And so, yes, that's what I was wondering what the Spirit of His Son was, in our hearts.

Doug: Yeah, well, of course, that's the Holy Spirit that Jesus said. He said, "I can't, you know, I'll be with you in the Holy Spirit. Wherever you go, I'm with you." And He's in you.

Jëan: You know, I'm looking for that book, Pastor Doug, "Why the Old Covenant Failed." And it actually talks about the new covenant and explains how God writes His law upon the heart of those who love Him. We'll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book. It's called, "Why the Old Covenant Failed." And also dial #250 on your smartphone, you can ask for it that way as well. Gerald in Michigan, Gerald, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Gerald: Hey, Pastor Ross, Pastor Doug.

Doug: Evening.

Gerald: Good evening. Pastor Doug, I just want you to know, I was in a bad way for a long time and when I was in prison, by accident, I programmed 3 ABN into my TV and "Amazing Facts" was on, and I surrendered my life to the Lord that night, and I just got baptized yesterday. So, thank you for your program.

Doug: Amen, now you said "by accident." Do you really believe it was an accident?

Gerald: Well, I say it was an accident because I didn't know that that channel was there, but—

Doug: But God arranged that, and I'm--praise God, we're just rejoicing with you. That's wonderful, Gerald.

Gerald: That's awesome. Okay, it's been said that we-- everybody has a guardian angel. I was wondering, when a person dies, does that guardian angel go to someone else, or is it possible that they guard the gravesite or wherever that person dies until that person raises with Jesus?

Doug: Let me tell you an amazing fact. Squirrels have an incredible memory. They bury nuts all summer long, all fall. They know where every nut is buried. How they do that, I don't know, but they know. Same thing with woodpeckers. Angels mark the grave of people they've cared for through their lives. I think angels are ministering spirits. They're busy. They probably would get bored, you know, sitting--an angel standing 6000 years by the grave of Abel. They've marked the place and they'll be there for the Resurrection. God may have them engaged doing something else in the meantime, but I'm sure they're--they like activity as much as we do. And they haven't forgotten the spot where the nuts are buried. So, you don't have to worry. But do they take on another person? I don't know, we're kind of delving into some speculation there. Do we have guardian angels? I think the Bible supports that because it says that "their angels do behold the face of My Father and the angel of the Lord," Psalm 91, "encamps around those that fear Him." So, I do think we have guardian angels.

Jëan: All right, and of course, if guardian angels standing guarding the tomb, now, of course, there were probably angels guarding the tomb of Christ when he was in the tomb, but when a person dies in faith and, you know, they are buried, there's no real reason to guard the body any longer.

Doug: What if they're cremated and scattered in the ocean, where they going to go?

Jëan: God's going to create with a new body, so, it's not so important—

Doug: What will the angels do if their ashes were scattered. What would they guard? The ocean?

Jëan: That's right. And I think they get reassigned. I mean, there's a lot of people in the world and so—

Doug: If I was an angel, I'd want to be busy. I always thought it'd be tough to be like the guard of the unknown soldier just march back and forth, but they do a great job in their drill.

Jëan: All right, Deanna in Illinois. Deanna, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Deanna: Good evening. So, my question is, what is the biblical significance of the number 7 and number 10 and also multiples of number 7 as in Daniel chapter 9, the 70-week prophecy?

Doug: Yeah, yeah, well, the 7 is, there are meanings, most scholars believe, to Bible numbers, and I think I'll get into it real quick, but just before I forget. We have a website, Bible Prophecy Truth, and there's a place here, it's got a key on Bible numbers and their meanings, if--I think that's where it's at. Seven is a number for a complete cycle, a perfect cycle. God made the week in--made the world in seven days, and it's a cycle. You find in Revelation, several cycles of history. You get the seven churches, seven trumpets, seven plagues. You get the seven seals, seven thunders, how many seven eyes. You get seven spirits. Come on, Pastor Ross, I'm leaving half of them out.

Jëan: There's a lot of sevens, yes.

Doug: A lot of sevens in Revelation. But--and it's talking about the perfection of God. A 12 often represents the church: 12 apostles, 12 tribes, 12 judges, 12 foundations in the New Jerusalem with 12 gates and 144,000. The church is going to eat 12 kinds of fruit, 12 times a year. Then you've got the number ten is the law. And, you know, you get the ten lepers that were healed. A woman has ten coins, but she loses one. Forty is a generation, usually, in the Bible, a lot of forties. So, 3 is a--3 1/2 is a like, 3 1/2 is usually a time of apostasy so it's half of 7. It's like it's interrupted. Six is the number of man in the Bible.

Jëan: Five is often associated with doctrinal teaching because of the first five books. So, number two is the old, the law and the prophets, two witnesses. So yeah, that's a great--that's a great study, the numbers in the Bible. All right, Luther in Tennessee, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Luther: Hey, well, thanks for taking my call. Who are the 24 elders in Revelations? I'm a bit confused about that.

Doug: Yeah, it's interesting. We just were talking about numbers. You said the 24 elders. The key to understanding Revelation is you look in the Old Testament, and it's true often in the reign of David and Solomon that their leaders were divided in 12s, 2 times 12 is 24. And so, but who are these 24 elders? Some wondered if they were the saints that were resurrected in Matthew 28 with the resurrection of Christ that ascended to heaven. I think it's more likely that they are leaders of unfallen worlds that they represent, they might represent unfallen districts of the universe, I don't know, but you know, it tells us there was a day when the sons of God came to gather with the Lord. There's this assembly around the Lord. Adam was to be the ruler of this world. He was called the son of God. And so it may be leaders of unfallen realms that are around the throne of God.

Jëan: You know, we do have a verse in Isaiah 24, verse 23, that I think is used or referenced in Revelation chapter 4, talking about the 24 elders. It says: "Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun shall be ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in Mount Zion, in Jerusalem, and before his ancient or elders gloriously." So here in the Old Testament, we have a reference to the Lord surrounded by the elders, and Revelation gives us the numbers: 24 elders. So, as Pastor Doug mentioned, scholars believe, many scholars believe that it could symbolize those sons of God that you read about in the book of Job or the representatives of the unfallen worlds. All right, thank you, Luther. We've got Phil and Joan in Arizona. Phil, Joan, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Joan: Hi, thank you for your Odyssey 2024 in New York and in the '90s, I believe. Thank you for historical prophecies. Enjoyed them both. We're both--we're both baptized. And my question is, why was there an immediate punishment where the wicked are stubble in Malachi 4, and why in Revelation comparing it to Revelation 20, and they're in the lake of fire for a short period of time. There's a--why wouldn't they just be eliminated quickly like they were in Malachi 4, the wicked?

Doug: Well, there's two times the wicked are burned up. I know it sounds kind of harsh, but Malachi I think is talking about when the Lord comes, as you read in Thessalonians, Pastor Ross will help me find, because I get 1 and 2 Thessalonians verses mixed up. But where it says that the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. When the day of the Lord comes, you read in 2 Peter chapter 3, "The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements melt with a fervent heat." That's where it burns it like stubble, burn up, and the elements will burn up. That's talking about when Jesus first comes. The judgment that you read about in Revelation is after the 1000 years when the wicked are then cast into the lake of fire. They're punished according to what they deserve, so they're kind of two different fires.

Jëan: The verse you're referring to, 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, verse 8. It says: "Then that wicked shall be revealed, and the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming."

Doug: So, it's the brilliance of His coming is--and the Lord's coming is a consuming fire, the Bible tells us. So, when Jesus comes, the righteous are resurrected or caught up to meet the Lord. The wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming. They'll be stubble at that time. They're later resurrected and judged according to their works, and then they're cast into the lake of fire, and that's separate.

Jëan: Okay, next caller that we have is Bear in California. Bear, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Bear: Good evening, my friends. How are you tonight?

Doug: Good, I know another Bear. There's not many out there. How you doing?

Bear: Yeah, I know we're far and few between. My question is, I know throughout the Bible, Jesus had several names and when Mary was told that she was going to have a baby, to name Him Jesus. Did Jesus have an official name in the Old Testament?

Doug: Well, are you talking about like when He appears to Abraham or--the only thing I can think of is when God said, you know, I am that I AM. And then you've got that sacred name of God that is Yahweh and some people call it Jehovah. It's we're not exactly sure how to pronounce it, the Tetragrammaton. And, so there's a sacred name of God, but even in the Old Testament there's a couple of Joshuas and they are types of Christ. Joshua was a prophet and a general that led them into the Promised Land, and there was a high priest named Joshua that led them from Babylon back to the Promised Land. Christ is our high priest, our general, our prophet. So, in that sense, He's also called the Son of David. So, He's got some symbolic names, you know, He's called the Almighty, the provider in Mount Moriah, God will provide. So, yeah, a number of names in the Old Testament are used, so I'm not sure if I'm answering what you're asking.

Bear: Well, I've got a flyer from you about Michael the Archangel.

Doug: Oh, okay, yeah. So, yeah, that's another name. One of the names for Christ is Michael, and that means who is as God. Now we're not saying, I always got to clarify with people, we do not believe that Jesus is an angel. He is eternal God. But when He appeared in the Old Testament, like when this majestic warlike being, this angel appears to Joshua, the angel says, "Take your shoes off, this is holy ground." We're not supposed to worship angels. And it says, "The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel." Michael the Archangel is one of the spiritual names for Jesus in the Old Testament, and you know that because it says in Revelation 12 that "the dragon and his angels," now the dragon is a symbolic name for the devil, "fought with Michael and His angels." Michael's a symbolic name for the leader of good, that's Jesus. So yes, that is one of the names, correct. I wasn't sure if you were looking for one of the Hebrew other names.

Jëan: You know, we have a book. It's called, "The Name of God."

Doug: And we got one, "Who is Michael the Archangel?"

Jëan: That one too, yeah, two books.

Doug: We'll send you two for the price of nothing.

Jëan: That's right. The number to call is 800-835-6747. That is our resource phone line. You can ask for the book, "The Name of God," or "Michael the Archangel," and we'll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. You can also dial #250 on your smartphone. Say "Bible Answers Live" and you'll be able to receive the book that way as well. Carl in Georgia. Carl, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Carl: Yeah, I got a question on the feet washing. I noticed many denominations don't do it, yet when Jesus says you ought to do this, to me, that's a very strong recommendation. Is there a basis why more denominations don't practice it?

Doug: Well, I agree with you that they should, because the command, He says, "If I wash your feet, you ought to wash one another's feet." His command there is just as explicit about the commandment of "As often as I drink it--as you eat and drink it, you do it in remembrance of Me." So, the commandment's equally clear. People in Bible times, they used to, you know, walk around barefoot on dirty roads and their feet needed regular washing. You come to someone's house, now you wash your hands before you eat. Back then they washed their feet and their hands because their feet often had to go on the same roads as the animals, and it didn't bring the best smell into the house. So, some people say, "Well, that was just a tradition from the ages. We don't need to do that anymore." But a lot of, you know, biblically careful churches still practice that. Our church practices that. I think it's interesting that even in the Catholic Church, I think once a year, the pope washes someone's feet or a few people's feet. I don't know if he can do it now he gets older, but that used to be a tradition because they recognize it's a command in the Bible. Not that the pope's our best example for everything, but anyway, so I know Primitive Baptists still do and a number of other churches.

Jëan: Okay, next caller that we have is Janelle in New York. Janelle, welcome to "Bible Answers Live."

Janelle: Hi, how are you?

Doug: Doing good. We got about a minute before we're out of time, so your question?

Janelle: Yes, so, I had a dream when I was younger, and this dream I've seen Jesus and He had a garment on, and it had--the garment that He was wearing was the garment that the high priests wore in the Old Testament, which is the Urim and the Thummim, I think I'm pronouncing it right. So, I see this verse and it's Ezra chapter 2, verse 63. And I want to know if this refers to Jesus as the high priest in heaven, and what He's wearing.

Doug: All right, let me read this for our friends listening. "And the governor said to them that they should not eat of the most holy things till a priest can consult with the Urim and the Thummim.” Those were the two sacred stones on the shoulder of the high priest. And when they were in doubt about what to do, sometimes they would pray and they'd look, and it's, evidently, it's--there's still some mystery about this, Pastor Ross, but it seems like one of the stones would glow. And it was kind of like a yes or a no answer that they'd get, doing this. I remember when one of the priests fled from King Saul, he took the ephod with him that had the Urim and the Thummim, and David would consult it before he went into battle. He had--Abiathar had that with him, and it would guide them about what to do. Now they don't know if the thing made a sound or hummed or glowed, but somehow they'd ask a question, and one meant yes and one meant no and, yeah, and Christ is, of course, our high priest. He's wearing the breastplate in Revelation chapter 1, but I'm not sure it says anything there about the Urim and the Thummim. So, it's a symbol for the high priest here.

Jëan: Our next caller is James in Minnesota. James, we got about a minute. You're on "Bible Answers Live."

James: Hello, Pastors. This is for Pastor Jëan Ross. The Protestant reformers and pioneers believed that the seven heads of the Roman beast in Revelation 17 were the seven different forms of Roman government: kings, consuls, decemvirs, triumvirs, dictators, emperors, and popes, which is a unique element of their kingdom. I've heard your understanding that the seven heads are seven kingdoms that have persecuted God's people. But can you please show me what other example you can give where another kingdom has other kingdoms as their head? Shouldn't there be another biblical example?

Jëan: Yeah, let me summarize that real quick. The Bible does say that the seven heads represent kingdoms, seven kingdoms as well. And the principal kingdoms that persecuted the people of God, if you go back just using the prophetic books of Daniel and Revelation, you go back to the time of Babylon. Babylon, even before that you can go to Syria, but Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and then the papal power for the 1260 years, and then there is a revival of persecution just before Jesus comes. And so we don't have time to get into all of those details, but that's sort of a summary.

Doug: We got a lesson on it at our website. Hey, thanks for listening, friends. We're out of time. God willing, we'll study His Word together with you again next week.

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