Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hello friends this is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact! In 1986, two and a half year old Michelle Frank was playing with her brother near their home outside Salt Lake City, they were playing by the icy water of dry creek when she slipped and sunk. Her frantic mother, neighbors, and paramedics tried desperately to find her.
Sixty-six minutes later, her lifeless body was pulled from the creek by a diver. When she was found, she had no heart beat and her core temperature was seventy degrees. She was rushed to the primary children’s medical center in Salt Lake City, where a special machine warmed up her blood! When her temperature reached ninety one degrees, her heart started beating and she opened her eyes! Michelle fully recovered with no side effects from her near death experience. What gave Michelle a chance was the fact that the water was clean and icy cold! If it had been lukewarm, she would not have made it! Why does Jesus say, “I would you be hot or cold, but because you are lukewarm, I will spew thee out of My mouth!” Stay with us friends, we are going to learn more as amazing facts bring you this edition of Bible Answers Live!
[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]
Pastor Doug Bachelor: Welcome friends, we are live and this is Bible Answers Live and we invite you to call in with your Bible questions. For the next 55 minutes we will be taking your phone calls from around the country and even around the world. Keep a pencil and pen handy we will be giving you some web addresses and another number for the free resources we always make available on this program. My name is Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross good evening listening friends and Pastor Doug, let us begin with prayer.
“Father once again we thank You that we have this time to study Your Word together, we ask a special blessing upon this program, be with those who are listening wherever they might be. We pray for wisdom here in the studio, as we search the Scriptures for answers, for we ask this in Jesus’s name Amen!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Amen!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor you opened the program by talking about Michelle, who survived more than an hour under water, I mean that’s incredible!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: It is amazing, it is the longest record of anyone who survived documented, of someone who survived a drowning, and the only thing that kept her alive is that the cold had shut down her system, so that whatever oxygen was left in her blood basically sustained her until they could warm her body back up again! And it made me think about that verse in the Bible where Jesus says in Revelations 3:15, “ I know thy works, that thou are neither cold nor hot, I would wish that you were cold or hot, so then because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of My mouth!” and It goes on to explain what that means, “ Because you say I am rich and increased with goods and have needed nothing and you don’t know that you’re wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked.”
Now I can always understand when Jesus said, “I wish that you were hot” as opposed to being lukewarm, hot being, filled with the Spirit, you are on fire! It is like the disciples were baptized where those tongues of fire … it means having the zeal of the Lord. But if Jesus then said, “I could wish you were hot or cold”, well, you would think of hot as saved, cold would be lost. Why would Jesus ever say?” I wish you were lost?!” But cold does not mean lost, Jesus is saying,” I wish you were on fire zealous, enthusiastic about your religion or if you humble yourself and realize your weakness -you are poor in spirit, you are repentant, that would be cool! But to be lukewarm is to think everything is okay, you are rich and increased in goods when you are not! And you know, when we think about it, what does the word ‘revival’ mean?
What happened to Michelle is a perfect definition of revival when someone who was alive, becomes inanimate! They must be revived. If someone swoons at a wedding or somebody drowns like this or has a heart attack and they are zapped back to life and they are revived; and the church needs revival. We frequently need to be revived because unless we keep moving, we tend to cool off and go to sleep in our experience. And maybe you feel like that sometimes friends, that you have just had a lukewarm experience with the Lord, maybe you have lost that first love that it talks about in Revelation chapter two, Jesus even said it is a real problem in the last days. What is that verse Pastor Ross about love growing cold?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Mathew 24:12, it says, “And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.”
Pastor Doug Batchelor: That is why we need that special machine to wake us up! The power of the Spirit! If you like to know more about revival, how you could experience revival,-by the way, this is a great resource for anyone who is teaching in a church or a pastor, Twelve Steps to Revival. Tell us about it Pastor Ross.
Pastor Jëan Ross: It is a book Pastor Doug that you wrote, Twelve Steps to Revival, it is encouraging to know that there is something we can do. You know what, to be revived is the work of the Holy Spirit upon the heart, but there is something we can do in coorperating with the work of the Holy Spirit and we will send this book out to anyone who calls and asks for it! The book is entitled, Twelve Steps to Revival and the resource line is 800-835-6747.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright we go to the phone lines, our first caller is Craig and he is listening from Des Moines, Iowa. Craig welcome to the program,
Craig: Yes, hello I have called you both a few times, I have not talked to you in a while, I thought I would give other people a chance!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well welcome, back, any questions tonight?
Craig: Took a break for a while [Laughs] any way yes, I have kind of an important question. I have been reading the Bible for years and studying actually and I cannot find any Scripture in the Bible that shows or says anything about how races became races, people, like our African-American got curly hair and brown eyes and Chinese people have the eyes that they have and you know that type of thing. I mean I know the Tower of Babel created the languages, but I do not know about the races, do you know anything on that?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, it is just that the way that genetic material ends up being divided through parents and they are certain what we call, ‘Micro Evolution’, not to be confused at all with ‘Macro Evolution’, but you have different groups of people scattered to different parts of the globe; they intermarried within their clans and tribes that grew and populated. Of course the whole world was populated from both Adam and Noah, and certain character traits became dominant and that is why you see different people and different cultures.
Some people have said that Noah’s three sons, were different races and of course that is absurd! There were many different genetic people within Adam and Eve in their genes; You know I always say- it is probably not the best analogy, but it makes sense to me; When you think about all the different dogs in the world today, think about the incredible variety of dogs, I mean you have dogs that are like a big old pile of skin, they are all wrinkles, you have dogs with long hair and some with virtually no hair, and you have dogs that are as big as a bar of soap, and you have dogs as big as a Volkswagen!
All these dogs they can trace their DNA back to two original dogs, even National Geographic agreed with that, there was a cover article called, ‘From Wolf to Woof!’ And all the dogs can be traced back to two dogs being their DNA, but look at the variety. All is based upon breeding, isolation, environment and these things, and the different traits become dominant.
Craig: Well, I had not even thought about it like that!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well over the millennia have different traits of people become separated- you know you can go through the pacific Islands, and you can see the distinct difference between the Polynesians and the Samoans and the Fijians and the people in New Guinea and just because their families were isolated on those Islands, they intermarried and there are identifiable differences!
Craig: That is really interesting!
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know we have a verse in Acts 17:26 that sort of ties in with what Pastor Doug is saying. It is an interesting verse that says: that He, God, has made from one blood every nation of man to dwell upon the face of the earth!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: That is right!
Pastor Jëan Ross: So from one blood or DNA, you have all the variety of the various nations that have come up.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, and that reminds me in spite of the differences, that we might have on the outside with the different races, if I have an accident and I need blood and I am in the hospital, they do not need to check what the race is on the blood, they need to make sure it is O+ or whatever it is, and all these different people in the world, they can intermarry, they can have healthy children, they can have the same blood type and so we obviously all came from the same parents.
Craig: Well, that is amazing! I had one person say once that, the way we intermarry now and all this, that there will be no black, white or anything in the future it will all be a golden brown
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, it is true that- especially in America there is a sort of a melding of the different ethnic groups together and it sort of forms a new group.
Craig: Yes, that would give me something to look at, I never thought about it anyway
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright we appreciate your calling back Craig.
Craig: I just wanted to gain time for a real quick question, so you could answer real fast?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright let me see how quick?
Craig: [Laughs] I am reading Desire of Ages, on page 38. It says; the brothers of Jesus were older, so that means that Joseph had children before marrying Mary?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, a quick answer to that would be- many scholars agree that Jesus probably was Mary’s only child, that the other brothers and sisters were from a former family Joseph had, he probably was a widower, and the reasons for this being that; at the cross Jesus commits the care of His mother, not to her sons or the brothers, but to John the apostle. The other thing is that Joseph disappears, meaning he was older; by the time Christ begins His ministry you never hear from Joseph again. He’s sort of in the past tense so He died sometime between when Jesus was twelve and thirty. The third thing is, it would be very unusual if Christ was the oldest and the first born for Him to leave home and become an itinerant preacher, but if He was the youngest, they would look the other way. So those are some of the reasons that it has been wondered. Any way I appreciate your call Craig.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have TJ who is listening from Lincoln Nebraska! Tj welcome to the program, you are on the air!
Tj: Hi, I was wondering if you guys could explain, Romans 14 in a nut shell, because we are looking at it from; we were thinking about context we will kind of use it to excuse some temperance among other things. Well, so I was just wondering if you could explain it
Pastor Doug Batchelor: We will do our best, obviously it is a long chapter, so it will be hard to break it down, we could probably preach three sermons on the whole chapter. In essence Paul is talking about not judging others, the back drop for why he is writing this, he is writing a letter to the Romans, He is a Roman believer- as some of the Jewish believers, the Jewish Christians were going to Rome. Yes there were Jews who had accepted Christ and they were telling them, that they needed to keep the Jews Sabbath days, - I am not talking about the Sabbath of the week, I am talking about ceremonial Sabbaths that came once a year!
Those were days that were added during the time of Moses. They are telling them that they need to not eat foods that had been bought in a public bazaar because maybe it had been offered to an idol before it was butchered, and it was not an issue of clean or unclean meat-just saying do not be judging each other on these things, let each person decide and according to their conscience. So he is talking about one who eats herbs- those who are afraid of eating food that has been offered to an idol, just ate vegetables to avoid the risk, that they were eating something offered to an idol. And others were worried of not keeping the Passover and the feast of tabernacles and these Jewish holidays, then I am somehow an outcast; and Paul said, look if you will keep the day keep it to the Lord, and so he is dealing with this issues of not judging one other. You have any comment on that Pastor Ross?
Pastor Jëan Ross: I was just thinking of a book pastor that we have on the subject called Feast Days and Sabbaths. Specifically I think about this passage and ceremonial law and ceremonial service and how that relates to the Ten Commandments Sabbath. Tj we will be happy to send that to you if you just call our resource line and ask for it. The book again is called, Feast Days and Sabbaths. The number is 800-835-6747. We have Darrell who is listening in Florida, Darrell, welcome to the program
Darrell: Hey Pastor Doug and Pastor Jëan, I have a question about, who is the first prophet mentioned in Revelation? I understand that the first beast mentioned in Revelation is the Roman Catholic Church or I guess specifically the Papacy and the second beast is North America or the Protestants stronghold and so I am wondering who the false prophet is.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well you know I am going to let Pastor Ross address this, he sort of specializes in Revelation, I think you just did a big series on this.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We did. Well I will share thoughts and pass it, of course you can jump right in there-we find false prophets mentioned in Revelation 16:13 and John talks about three unclean spirits that he sees like frogs coming out the mouth of the dragon, the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet and this is if you like, the counterfeit Trinity, just like you have the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit; this is the counterfeit of that, the dragon is identified as the devil. The beast represents this world wide religious power at the end of time that leads millions astray. The false prophet-of course if you counterfeit the Trinity that the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, it is a false manifestation of the Holy Spirit at the end of time in various churches that sort of galvanize these various entities to at one point in time, even force a certain type of worship. So the false prophet is identified as the sum counterfeit moving of the Holy Spirit that we see manifest in false revivals in many protestant churches today.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now that false prophet, I agree with Pastor Ross, that it is a counterfeit version of the Spirit; Satan himself may seek to impersonate Christ in the last days, and that is why it tells us in Revelation 20:10, the devil that deceived them was cast in the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast- now the devil must be the dragon because it calls him the devil there, where are the beast and the false prophet and they are tormented.
So somehow that counterfeit spirit is going to embody some spokesman that is going to deceive people, and we do not know exactly how that is manifested but, yes, there is going to be great deception, Christ said there will be false Christ’s and false prophets in the last days. Now we just read that a minute ago from Mathew chapter 4. Now I am just thinking what we can send Darrell, Does that help answer your question?
Darrell: Yes, Actually I have been watching pastor Steven Bohr’s Three Angel’s Message on you tube and that is pretty interesting! I appreciate everything and thank you guys. . .
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Thank you Darrell, I appreciate your calls.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Sandra who is listening in Canada, Sandra welcome to the program!
Sandra: Hi Pastor, Yes my question is regarding this Leviticus 23 and also Deuteronomy 30. They’re referred to as the Lord’s feast and I guess I am just wondering, how would you explain that regarding-like the feast are no longer necessary to follow today
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, in a sense we do follow them, the feast went through a little bit of a freshening, where before they were a shadow and now we have substance, for example, in the Passover when Jesus had the last supper with the disciples He said, “I am longing to eat this Passover with you,” that is how it is worded in Luke, the last supper was a Passover service, but obviously now, it would sort of be a denial of Christ if we were sacrificing real lambs and going through it the old way!
So Jesus showed us, that there is an expansion, you know, once you get out of kindergarten, it does not make sense to keep playing with finger paints, you use a brush. And so the feasts were sort of like teaching the principals of salvation to the children of Israel. Now we have the actual substance of Christ’s life as the fulfillment of those things and we still rejoice in the deliverance from death because of the blood of the lamb! Except it is not a physical lamb anymore, it is the Lamb of God’s Son! See what I am saying?
Sandra: Yes!
Pastor Doug Bachelor: So for us to go back and keep- I think Pastor Ross said it- that verse in Corinthians about Christ is our Passover- By the way the book that we just offered a moment ago, on Feast Days and Sabbaths, you would really enjoy.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The verse you are referring to is 1 Corinthians 5:7.
Sandra: Yes, My husband you know he is a Sabbath keeper also but goes to a Messianic church and they believe in the importance of acknowledging all the feasts as they come up, so that they are still important to recognize today.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well I did a series couple of years ago, on Jesus and the Feast Days, I think we should be aware of the teaching that is there, but the place that would apply, some else just called a minute ago and they asked about Romans 14 and where it says, one man regards one day above another and another man regards everyday alike, let each man be persuaded in his own mind, if you are going to keep the day, keep it unto the Lord.
Well enough if somebody says, hey! My family and I would like to go camping and call it the Feast of Tabernacles, you’re obviously not going to go to Israel, which was part of the feast, you needed to actually go to Jerusalem for many of them. Some of these things have to be symbols today because they do not have a sacrificial system; they do not have a temple. You know, if you want to remember them, there is certainly no sin in it, but you should not tell other people that this is mandatory because the Bible does not teach that.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know that even today that people will keep the feast days [??] according to what is written in the Old Testament just because there is no sanctuary, It was required that, back in Bible times, you journeyed to Jerusalem for the Passover
Pastor Doug Batchelor: And there is a sacrifice you were required. . .
Pastor Jëan Ross: That is right! All of that appointed for the Christ.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: By the way you asked what the difference would be, when it comes to the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments, seventh day of the week, that existed before there was a Jew. Genesis 2 tells us that this existed before there was sin! The Sabbath was the seventh day of creation, God blessed that day. So that is a whole different category than something that showed up during the exodus to help them remember their deliverance for a nation, and in the same way that circumcision was a very important covenant between Abraham and God, Paul made it very clear circumcision is nothing, un-circumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments is what matters.
So [??] certainly falls into that category, if a person wants to be circumcised, it certainly not a sin, but it should not be required and preached that it is mandatory. I appreciate you call Sandra and hope that helps a little and do ask for that book, Feast Days and Sabbaths.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call 800-835-6747 that is the resource line, ask for the book Feast Days and Sabbaths. We have Tristan who is listening in Washington, Tristan welcome to the program!
Tristan: Thank you Pastor Doug Bachelor and Pastor Ross, thank you for inviting me for the program.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, and your question tonight?
Tristan: Okay, what is meant by the testimony of Jesus Christ in Revelation 12:17 and the testimony of Christ in 1 Corinthians 1:6.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well if you look, if you have your Bible there go to Revelation 19 and in Revelation 19:10, it says John is having an angel talk to him and John is so overwhelmed by the glory of the angel, it says, “ I fell at His feet to worship Him, and he the angel said, “ see thou do it not!” or in other words, do not do that, I am thy fellow servant. Angels serve God, just like we serve God. I am thy fellow servant and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus, worship God for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. And you will also find in Isaiah chapter 8:16, it says, ‘bind up the testimonies; seal the law among my disciples. So the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy, pretty clear from this verse.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And of course the testimony or rather the Spirit of Prophecy which is the testimony of Jesus is one of the gifts that God bestowed upon His church and I think that is what you are referring to in 1 Corinthians 1:6
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Does that help Tristan?
Tristan: Yes that helps very much, thank you very much, I really appreciate it.
Pastor Doug Bachelor: Alright, I really appreciate your call, God bless.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Robert in New Jersey Listening on WMCA Robert welcome to the program!
Robert: Well thank you guys for taking my call, and my question tonight is, I have a friend who was a believer, read the Bible and went to church consistently and out of the clear blue, he took his own life, and my question is, did he lose his salvation? Is he in hell? Does the Bible strictly forbid anybody from taking their life? Would you help out with that question for me?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, first thing, I can tell you with some certainty, is that he is not in hell now, because that is a medieval belief that a person dies and goes right to hell. The Bible is very clear that the resurrection has not even happened yet, the judgment has not happened yet, the Bible is clear in Revelation and Jesus said, ‘the resurrection at the last day’. So the idea that people die and go to hell before there is a judgment; put that out of your mind. That is what drives people to distraction. . .
Robert: Excuse me, I am not trying to debate you, but then I am very unclear when the Scripture says to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord, because the spirit will go to heaven, but your physical body would not go to heaven until judgment day, is that what you are saying?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, here is where- you know, now that we are living in the time after Einstein, we understand a little better how time works; a little better and we live in time- God, He lives in all eternity, God can live in the future in the past; He is not constrained to time. When we die, if we are saved, our next conscience thought is the resurrection and the presence of the Lord, it says that when the Lord comes in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, the dead in Christ rise first.
So, you know the judgment has not happened yet and yes it is true to be absent from the body, your next conscience thought is the presence of the Lord, but you go to a cemetery and you know, obviously there, it says on many tombstones also sleeping in Jesus- So Jesus said our friend Lazarus is asleep; Jesus rose Lazarus after being dead four days, Lazarus made no comment about Jesus bringing him down from heaven or from Abraham’s bosom or from hell or anywhere, he was asleep. For Lazarus, it did not seem like four days, see what I am saying?
Anyway, but the bigger question you are asking is about losing salvation and will this person be saved or if they are lost, and I am just going to tell you this is a difficult question, because only God knows the heart, I will just say that I am encouraged, it is not the occasional good deed or occasional misdeeds that determine our salvation! Our salvation first and foremost is determined by our decision to trust the Lord and there are people who spent their lives serving the Lord and in a moment of weakness, you do not know what is happening to them chemically in their body, they could have- some people do crazy things with low blood sugar, that is why the devil came to Jesus when He was hungry.
So we do not know what was going on and we have to be very careful not to judge, normally- now there are people listening right now, who have thought about suicide, I don’t want them to think that suicide might be a way out, and they can still be saved, that is also a dangerous thought, because the Bible says do not kill and that would include yourself, so you know, I think we need to be careful not to judge, in situations like this you celebrate the good in a person’s life and we just have to put it in the hands of the Lord and just wait and know when we get to the kingdom, nobody is going to be disappointed with what God judged to do. So it will be presumptive for me or Pastor Ross to say we know the answer about this man’s fate.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know what is encouraging is, God is in the business of saving people, it is His desire that all men come to a knowledge of the truth to be saved, so we also know that God is a merciful God and He is the only one that knows the heart, so we can take comfort that God knows what is best and He is going to make the right decision!
Robert: That is right, I know he was a good faithful disciple and he read the book and had a personal relationship with Jesus, and there was no clues, no nothing, it was spontaneous and everybody was shocked!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: The people were just shocked- Yes, that is very difficult when something like that happens, and just yes, do not be discouraged do your best to comfort any friends or family that he has, that they can just trust God-this is really where it really takes faith, when we do not have the answers, it does not take a lot of faith if we think we have all the answers, it takes a lot of faith when we do not have all the answers, and you just have to say, “Lord I know you are good” and God is going to do all He can to save as many as He can, that is why He sent us His Son, So just leave it in His hands and He will be loving and He will be just at the same time!
Robert: That brings a lot of peace to me, thank you guys and enjoy the rest of the night.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Absolutely! Thank you for your call, we sure appreciate it!
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Bradley listening in Michigan, Bradley welcome to the program!
Bradley: Good evening pastors
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening!
Bradley: My question is about Mathew 17:25-26, in verse 26, Jesus says to Peter, then the sons are free then the children are free, what does He mean by that?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, when one country conquered another country, the conquered country had to pay taxes, and it said a person was free, it meant that they were free from a typical government tax, for instance, you know Paul talked about his being a Roman. Roman citizens had special rights in the kingdom that the average slave or non-citizen did not have- if you look at when David fought Goliath,-mind if I rewind-we read this week, it was said ‘whoever kills the giant, his family will be free in Israel.’ What that meant was that the king would probably give them tax free status, and so Jesus is using that same terminology that is found in 1Samuel.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know pastor I was saying this- not too long ago, I learnt something new as well; back in Bible times at the time of Christ, people who were considered prophets were exempt from paying the temple tax, and Jesus and the disciples in Jerusalem and the Pharisees and scribes came to the disciples of Christ and said, You know, “is your Lord going to pay the temple tax?” In other words they refused to acknowledge Christ as a Prophet, and that is what Christ is referring to you as well!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Amen!
Pastor Jëan Ross: We are coming up on a break here in just a few moments, but before we do, we’d like to mention one of our websites, and one of the more popular websites when it comes to studying the Word of God is the website Bibleuniverse.com
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes Bible universe is a good place- a lot of people listening and would like to do Bible studies and we not only have Bible studies, it is free- there are free online Bible studies, you could probably even order them if you wanted the paper versions, through this website, but then you could download them and print them. But we also have Bible studies in a myriad of languages, and you may want to send the link to your friends! The Bible study guides are in Spanish, They are in German, they are in Norwegian, they are in Farsi, and a matter of fact we have a whole new Arabic website as well. So Farsi is the language they speak in Iranian, Arabic is Saudi Arabia, a number of Bible studies in these Muslim countries. Go to Bibleuniverse.com all kinds of studying materials there! We are going to take a break, but we will be back!
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
Pastor Doug Batchelor: We are back with Bible answers live and if you have any questions we still have a couple of lines open. Pick up the phone, give us a call with your Bible question. It is a free phone call; 800-GOD-SAYS. 800-463-7297, that is 800-463-7297 brings you into the studio with your Bible question. And my name is Doug Batchelor!
Pastor Jëan Ross: And my name is Jëan Ross, we are going to go straight to the phone line, we have Jamie who is listening in Brooklyn New York!
Jamie: My question is, Isaiah 28:13-10, which says, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little there a little, what does that mean?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well it means, When you study the Bible, when we study the Scriptures and even in Isaiah, they had Scriptures, they not only had the laws of Moses, they had the Psalms, they had the Proverbs; they believed to arrive at truth you needed to compare Scripture with Scripture, line upon line. In the building of evidence, Jesus said in the mouth of two or three witnesses let everything be established. We should not build a doctrine on one Scripture, we should compare Scripture with Scripture, and we should have at least two, better if you have three. So it is a principle for studying the Word, that I think he is talking about here.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know I heard an illustration once of somebody building fence and if they put one pole in, you do not know whether the fence is going to run North, South or East, West, but if they put two or three or four poles, suddenly you begin to see a row is forming and now you have a pretty good idea to which direction to which the fence is going to go! So it possible to pick one Bible verse maybe out of context and say that it means this, but if you have several Bible texts on that topic, you begin to get a very clear idea of what the central theme of the Scripture is on that particular point!
Jamie: Well, what does it mean line upon line; line upon here a little, there a little? What is that?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: well it means, go back and forth and you search and compare, comparing verses, and it is not just whole verses, a little means even taking the small word and comparing them. So you look and you see the little differences here and there and you compare line upon line and make sure that things add up! And you are rightly dividing- Paul talks about rightly dividing the Word of God.
Jamie: What does it mean rightly dividing the Word of God? Could you give an example please?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well for one thing the Bible called a sword- rightly dividing the Word of God would be where you take a verse and you say, well- Jesus said for instance, ‘if your right hand offends you, cut if off!’ does He mean that if you go shoplifting you are supposed to chop off your hand? Or obviously that is not going to change your heart it is an illustration; so realizing that Jesus is saying symbolically if there is something so close to you as your hand that is causing you to sin, get rid of it! He is not suggesting people amputate! Rightly dividing the Word would say, what is He really talking about here? He is talking about a principle. Some people do not rightly divide the word because they take things to the extreme and they do not compare Scripture with Scripture.
Jamie: Okay thank you very much.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay, I appreciate your question Jamie.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Darrell listening from Golf Breeze Florida. Darrell welcome to the program!
Darrell: Hey guys another question about Revelation, Revelation 13:15, it talks about, he was granted power to give breathe to the image of the beast that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. What or who is this image?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well first it is not just an image of nothing, it is an image of a beast, and we have to know who is the first beast, well. . .
Darrell: That would be the Papacy or the Roman Catholic Church?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: It was an institution, yes. Most protestants believe that this beast- and keep this in mind as we say this, folks get offended and they write us letters, the word beast here in the Bible is not talking about monster, all the nations were symbolized as animals. You know, we even do that today, when we say Russia what nation do you think of? I think of a bear, when you say a dragon, they think of China, the lion they think of Great Britain, the Eagle they think of the US; even the Romans had an Eagle back in their day for national bird.
So when we are talking about a beast, we are talking about a political religious power; and the kingdoms of Daniel, it idolizes the kingdom of Babylon, medo-Persia and Greece as different animals, and so this fourth or creature we believe is the Papacy, and because it ends up breaking into the ten divisions of the Roman empire, is a prosecuting power- which is why Pope John Paul the second apologized in the year 2000 for the persecutions of the church - they knew that- and most protesters- virtually all protestants when the movement began, identified the beast of Revelation 13 as the Papacy, but it says there is an image to the beast- an image is a reflection or a similar power.
That means, even though the Papacy used to rule the ancient Roman empire, with an army and it had political and religious power, they lost that influence that deadly wound is healed and another power rises up, where, there is going to be a political institution that is going to pull in protestants and charismatics and many of them are going to compel religious laws.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know if you look at the first beast power you have a religious entity a church combining with the power of the state and as a result during the dark ages, there was persecution. An image to the beast would be a similar situation; we have religious powers or the church working with the state to enforce her teachings, so an image of the beast would be something that occurs in our time, we have religious powers looking to the state to enforce their teachings and as a result some groups end up being persecuted.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes. And so we have a whole lesson that deals with the subject of who is the anti-christ and identifies its political powers. I only have one on America in prophecy that talks about the role America would play as that second beast in Revelation!
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know Pastor Doug we just released the documentary that just hits this straight on, and it is called Revelation, the Dragon, the Beast and the Woman! Is that right? Did I say that. . .
Pastor Doug Batchelor: That is the Beast the Woman and Babylon!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Kind of mixed up there, but that deals with it, it is an outstanding documentary and it is available by going to the amazing facts website, just type that in and you can get your own DVD through amazing facts and it is an amazing the amount of information!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, you can type in Revelation Mystery and it will take you to the website there. Thank you Darrell we appreciate your call.
Pastor Jëan Ross: David is listening in San Diego California, David welcome to the program!
David: Thank you, appreciate it! God bless you guys, I have another Revelation question. There has been a couple of pastors that are preaching – I don’t know if you guys have had it but I believe they are calling it, where there is going to be four blood moons. I was just wondering how your perspective is, How it is explained in the prophecy. And more detail you know on the 6th we had talked about the sun would be black and the moon would turn a blood red color and there will be a big earthquake.
So what the pastor was saying was that, on each of four blood moons that are going to happen within the next two years, starting on I think February 15th, which is the first blood moon, they so happen to fall on Jewish holidays. Each and every one, those are numbers given by NASA. So I was kind of wondering what your perspective is and if you think that we are going to see an obvious sign, one more thing to add is that the pastor talked about in the past when there was the blood, something could happen to Israel. Whether it was the- I’m not sure of the history of Israel but either the seven day war, a couple of major events that happened to coincide with those blood moons. I am wondering what . . .
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, first in fairness I have heard of the book, I think one is written by Pastor John Hagee, I have not read the book, but I am acquainted where in the Bible it talks about the moon turning to blood! In Jewish history, wherever there was a war, there was often a lot of burning of cities and burning of forests and when there is a lot of smoke in the sky at night, the moon will appear blood red!
It happens today, if you have a forest fire in Northern California which is about as common as the summer time- you look up and there is a lot of smoke in the sky, the moon will be blood red. So when it talks about the moon turning to blood, it is talking about, there is some king of judgment, there is some kind of fire, there is some kind of cities being touched or scorched and burned and the sun being darkened and the moon turning to blood, it is usually smoke in the sky. Now there was a day in history where the sun went dark in early American history and the moon turned to blood- you remember that day pastor Ross? Was that, May 1830?
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have 1755
Pastor Doug Batchelor: 1755, yes, the stars falling was …
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: And this is called the dark day in history! You can just look it up- not only did the sun go dark in the middle of the day for- no fire no smoke, it just went dark and that night the moon came up as red as blood, they say, and even a number of historians recorded this, and then there has been great earthquakes throughout history. I will predict- You know the easy way to know about this is, I think you said February 15th, it is about twelve days away, let us watch and see, I am not a prophet, but I predict nothing extraordinary will happen.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Correction here the date was- I am just looking that up, May 19th 1780, was the remarkable dark day and in that night the moon was blood red!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: When it came up, those who use historic view of prophecy, saw that as a fulfillment of prophecy. So that would be my opinion on that, hope that helps a little David, I appreciate your question
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Gregory who is listening in North Carolina, Gregory welcome to the program!
Gregory: Hey how you are doing this evening? In the Old Testament men were allowed to have more than one wife and have concubines. And I would like to know how in the New Testament- because Jesus never spoke on it, maybe I am speaking naively, but I do not recall Jesus speaking of men having more than one wife
Pastor Doug Batchelor: There is one place where Jesus talked about it- Christ said that no man can serve two masters
Gregory: But He would say a man not meaning a woman, but, many?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: First of all if you want to know what God’s original plan was, you can just look in Genesis. God did not give Adam a harem, He made Adam and one wife, and it was not until much later that men began to turn to polygamy and part of the reason for that was , when violence increased on the earth- and that is what it says before the flood, a lot of the men were decimated in war- that is before they let women go to war, and sometimes there would be villages in town where you had ten women for every man, and there was no social security and the Lord sort of winked at their ignorance and allowed one man to sort of take and protect two or three women, they also if they had no children, there would be no one to take care of them.
So it became more common and accepted, but you look at every story in the Bible, where a man had multiple wives and he had multiple problems, look at all the heartaches that was brought into- I do not mean that to be sarcastic ,I really do not, look at the strife that happened in Abraham’s house between Hagar and Sarah, God finally told Abraham, put away Sarah, he basically said divorce her, give her some money and send her away, you are not supposed to have. . .
Pastor Jëan Ross: You mean Hagar?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes Hagar, I am sorry, Hagar, thank you. And the same thing with Jacob, he ended up with the two sisters and their concubines and they were arguing among each other and the poor guy almost got torn limb from limb. One more thing I think is interesting, Abraham and Jacob multiple wives, Isaac only had one wife and he lived longer than both of them! It has actually shown that a married man with one wife lives longer, even today, it is true.
So do not think polygamy is God’s plan, Jesus did not comment on it because by the time Christ was born, in the Greco Roman world- they did not really practice polygamy, there was a little bit of it- and that is why Paul says that an elder is to be the husband of one wife. There still was the culture that had multiple wives, the Romans and the Greeks frowned on it, but just in case there is any doubt, Paul said, Elder, husband, one wife! Not two or three. I appreciate your call Gregory, thank you
Gregory: Thank you!
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Edgar who is listening from Kansas, Edgar welcome to the program!
Edgar: Hi, I have a really quick question, the word spirit, in the old testament one of the words used is [??], and then they both mean like breath? right?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, wind or breath- yes.
Edgar: How does it when used in the context of the Holy Spirit?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, its just a term that was used when it is talking about the holy wind of God, or the holy breath of God, but different words are used to identify the Holy Spirit; sometimes the Counselor, the Comforter, and so the new testament you find many different words- when it says the Spirit of the Lord came on Samson, or the Spirit of the Lord came on David or the different judges; you still see evidence of the Holy Spirit coming over people, and it is more clearly defined in the new testament under the teaching of Jesus. Where John say, “ I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh, your sons and daughters will prophecy, old men will dream dreams” so this is talking about not just breathing it is talking about the manifestation of God’s Spirit working in people. John chapter two
Edgar: Okay, that makes sense.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes we have a booklet on the Holy Spirit that we can send you if you like!
Edgar: Okay
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747, you can ask for the study guide or the book actually dealing with the Holy Spirit and Life in the Spirit. This is a good book. 800-835-6747. Our next caller is Mark and he is listening in Minnesota. Mark, welcome to the program!
Mark: Good evening?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening,
Mark: I have a question. About seven years ago, I am a Christian my wife was a Christian, and one day she just decided she just did not want to be married again any more. I have talked to some people and they said when you are a Christian is abandoned, it is okay to remarry, but I have never found anything in the Scripture that confirms or denies that, could you guys give me any insight?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well probably the person talking to you is referring to 1 Corinthians seven, and it says here; “To the married I command, yet not I but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband.” It is talking about if a believer is married to a non-believer principally- but if she departs or later remains unmarried or be reconciled, for the rest speak I but not the Lord, if a brother has a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away, or let him not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband that believes not and he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him, for the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband, otherwise your children will be unclean with the holy- meaning the influence of the believer has a holy influence, but if the unbeliever departs let him depart, a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. So if your wife without any Biblical grounds abandon you- do you mind my asking, did she remarry?
Mark: Yes she did and then she has been divorced from that marriage also.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Biblically, Jesus said that there is no grounds for remarriage except, fornication or here is another case if you are abandoned and they marry some else, they violated the marriage vow, you have Biblical grounds and you should consult with a pastor, you know, you do not want to get marriage counseling over the radio because often there are other details you do not want to dredge up in public- so to speak, but you should counsel with a pastor, but just on the surface, if I were the peer, you had Biblical grounds for remarriage.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know we have a book dealing with this subject, we get quite a few questions on it- about a year or two ago pastor Doug you wrote a book called, Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage, and it deals specifically with this subject.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes that would be perfect Mark!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright, if you called our resource line Mark we will be able to send this to you, it is 800-835-6747, you can ask for the book Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage! Our next caller is Solomon and he is listening in Hampton Virginia! Solomon welcome to the program!
Solomon: Hello?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi welcome you are on the air!
Solomon: Yes, I would like to ask you a question, is there any difference from being saved, and being born again? If there is what is the difference?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: There should not be any difference because we use the term born again when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus and He said you need to be born again and then He goes on and talks about the moving of the Spirit. If you are a new creature, and you have been saved you are born again, it is all one and the same- I don’t know Pastor Ross, if you have any thoughts on that, but I would think that it is really talking about the same renewed heart experience!
Solomon: The reason why asked is because – it is just like some people to say Holy Ghost again some people say Holy Spirit and I thought it was the same thing.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well it is specifically on this subject, there are many phrases used in Scripture describing the same event; you have been born again, you are receiving a new heart-
Pastor Doug Batchelor: conversion
Pastor Jëan Ross: It talks about justification, conversion, new creature, so there are many phrases or ideas but it is conveying the same idea, meaning a change of heart, change of attitude, recommitting your life to Christ, or committing your life, turning away from Satan, all the same idea.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, in other words saved! That is why they call on the name of the Lord- there are only two roads there is not a third road, in other words, Jesus said, if you are not with Him, you are against Him! Or people are either on their way to heaven or on the way in the other direction and there’s not like a third option; so you do not have a half way thing, where someone is born again and then a three quarter where they are saved and a hundred percent where they are justified-it is one or the other! For a person who is come to the Lord, there is still a sanctifying growth that happens.
Solomon: Right that is my question; you just took the word right out my mouth!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes we continue to grow. . .
Solomon: It’s a stage, you do not just get saved, I mean you will be converted and justified.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: You are justified right when you come to the Lord, but then you would need to still continue to learn and study and grow in your knowledge.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know there is three phases to salvation, and I heard it once this way which made sense- when you come to Christ you receive forgiveness, that is freedom from the penalty of sin-for the wages of sin is death! Then Christ works within you- the theological term is sanctification- and that is freedom from the power of sin in your life, that is little by little as you grow and then that ultimately reach its completion at the second coming of Christ, when you have freedom from the presence of Satan, when there is no more sickness no more pain, no more suffering no more death, so, salvation then reaches its ultimate completion at the second coming of Christ.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: I appreciate that Solomon and we do have a study guide, that deals with the process of salvation and if you call the number or look on line, you could read for free on line or we will send you a copy
Pastor Jëan Ross: Thestudy guide is called Rescue from Above dealing with the subject of salvation, Rescue from Above! The number is 800-835-6747. We have Theo who is listening in Brooklyn New York! Theo welcome to the program
Theo: How are you, Good evening?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening! We have about three minutes, your question now?
Theo: Okay, my question Sir is, I read in the Bible that Satan was created by God, but my question itself is that, where did Satan himself get his evil propensity from?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now where did you read that Satan was created by God?
Theo: Then I stand to be corrected! How did Satan come about? God Himself is self-existing, is Satan too self-existing?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: No, Satan actually is an amalgamation, meaning, God made a beautiful angel, that beautiful, intelligent, free angel began to choose to love himself more than God and he evolved into - I do not like to use the word evolved, but basically he transformed himself into the arch villain Satan and that is a lot of evil that we see in the world today; Jesus said the price of this world- there is a battle going on. Michael and His angels with the dragon and his angels- it talks about a war, but God did not make a devil, He made a beautiful perfect angel that was free, but Satan chose to worship himself instead of God and he basically transformed.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we have a verse in Ezekiel 28:15 speaking of this angel that eventually becomes Satan; that says ‘you were perfect in all your ways from the day that were you were created’. So God created this beautiful being- and then it says, but iniquity was found in you! So Satan directed his affections away from God centered it upon himself and as that desire for self-exaltation grew, he eventually became an open rebel against God and against God’s government.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yes, so hey I appreciate your question Theo, we do have a study guide that talks about, Did God make a Devil! It perfectly answers your question!
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call for that is 800-835-6747; you can ask for the study guide, Did God Create a Devil!
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Also if anyone has a question, where did Satan come from? We have a video that we spent two years creating called Cosmic Conflict- I think you can, not only order it, a lot of people have taken it and put it on YouTube now so we have kind of thrown our hands in the air; but you can type in Cosmic Conflict - go to YouTube and probably see all the episodes there, but it helps you understand where Satan came from.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hey friends help us stay on the air this New Year! Just go to amazingfacts.org, click contact, let us know if the program has been a blessing, and how we can improve it and you can donate too! We appreciate it! God Bless we will talk again next week!
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