Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor, how about an amazing fact? Astrology, fortune telling, palm reading are a global multi-million dollar business. In America, over a hundred and twenty-five million people say they believe in astrology, a gallop poll telephone survey found that 25% of Americans believe that the position of the stars and planets can affect people’s lives and at least 7 out of 10 of these, check there horoscope regularly. Researchers at the University of Wales interviewed 34,000 youngsters between 13 and 15 years of age, and found that nearly as many of them believed in horoscopes as believed in God.
The country of Nepal may be the most devoted to spiritism, where more than 48% of the people go to palm readers, fortune tellers and astrologers, seeking knowledge about the future. This spiritualistic interest also reaches the rich and the famous. Most of us remember, former first lady, Nancy Reagan admitted, consulting an astrologer in helping President Reagan prepare his White House schedule. Hollywood is rife with astrology and of course the internet is bursting with horoscope sites that will evaluate your signs and spit out vague predictions for a price, you can even cast an evil spell on someone for $3.99.
But what does the Bible say about consulting a medium or checking your lucky stars to discover your future? Stay here friends we’re going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.
[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well we’re glad you tuned in friends to Bible Answers Live and if you’re new to the program, the purpose of this broadcast is to help us, better understand the Word of God. If you have any Bible related question, we invite you to pick up the phone, it’s a free phone call. Give us a call, right know is a good time, we have lines open at the beginning of the program. We’ll be here about 53 minutes together, that number, free phone call 800-God says. Here it is in English, 800-463-7297 and that will bring you into the studio for your Bible questions and we have lines open right know. My name is Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross, good evening listening friends, Pastor Doug let’s begin the program with prayer. Dear Father, once again we thank You that we have this time to study Your Word together, we want to ask You a special blessing. We need the Holy Spirit in order to correctly understand Your Book so be with those who are listening wherever they might be and we pray for wisdom here in the studio, in Jesus name, amen.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Amen.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program by talking about, just thousands, millions of people who go to psychics and astrologists and try to figure out what’s going to happen in the future. It’s one of those puzzling questions. I think everybody would like to know, well, what’s going to happen in the future? How is it going to affect my life? Can we go to the horoscopes to try and figure out what’s going to happen in the future?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, you know, there’s a story in the Bible about a mighty king of Babylon, you can find this in Daniel 2. He had a dream that he knew was a divine dream, it was unusual, supernatural or powerfully vivid dream and he called in all of his astrologers and his soothsayers and his mediums and said, they were called the wise men of Babylon, “tell me what me dream means” and they couldn’t. They had no clue and they couldn’t even make anything up because he said, “I want you to tell me what the dream is and what it means” because he was starting to forget his dream as we often do.
Eventually they brought Daniel in and God revealed to Daniel, not only the dream but it’s interpretation, and Daniel said, and this is the book of Daniel again, chapter 2 verse 27, he said in the presence of the king, and this is King Nebuchadnezzar, “The secret that the king has demanded the wise men, the astrologers the magicians and the soothsayers cannot declare to the king but there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets and He is making known to king Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days”.
And so, yes, people can know the future but not only does God say that you’re wasting your money on psychics and astrologers and palm readers and soothsayers and mediums, it commands us not to do it in the Bible. You can read in Deuteronomy 18:10, Moses said, “There shall not be found among you, anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, who practices witchcraft or a soothsayer or one who interprets omens or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells or a medium or spiritist, or one who calls up the dead, for all who do this things are an abomination to the Lord”.
And if that’s not clear, you can read in Isaiah 47, “You are wearied in the multitude of councils, now let the astrologers and the star gazers and the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save you from you from what shall come upon you, they’ll be stubble, the fire will burn them”. And so, you know, even back in the days of Israel, they were going to the, the psychics and astrologers and God said, “Don’t do that because it’s an opportunity for the devil to speak through these bogus channels”.
My mother, she actually was in business selling horoscope information, she wrote a whole.. she was a song writer too but she wrote a whole album of the, there were love songs for the horoscopes and she had friends that wrote for the paper, telling people what their zodiac signs meant and what their horoscopes were. And they all used to laugh at the people that would read them because they would sit around, looking at the ceiling and make up the most bizarre things like, whoever sits in a studio somewhere and writes fortune cookies, it had nothing to do with the alignment of the stars and so, you know I just, it makes me sad that so many people are looking at these that you know, dubious reports in the newspaper and they won’t read the Bible, and God said, “I know the future”, and God has proven that His prophecies come true.
Now maybe you haven’t heard this before friends, you’d like to know more about what’s wrong with going to an astrologer or palm reader and where do we get our information? We have a study guide that talks about that and we’ll send it to you for free.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The study guide is entitled, Does God Inspire Astrologists and Psychics? We’ll send that to anyone who calls and asks for it, the number is 800-835-6747 and you can just ask for the study guide, Does God Inspire Psychics and Astrologers? We’ll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks, the number again is 800-835-6747, that is our resource line and if you have a Bible question, the number to the studio is 800-463-7297, one more time, 800-463-7297. We’re going to go to the phone lines now. We have Anthony who is calling from Washington. Anthony welcome to the program.
Anthony: Hi.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening
Anthony: Thank you for your time.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: How can we help you?
Anthony: I had a question, Jesus says, and I’m not, I’m paraphrasing here because I’m not sure exactly where it is. I’ve been searching through my Bible desperately. He says that, “Not (inaudible 8:04-8:05)” which I agree with, “Because surely, you will not be forgiven”, well later on, He says, “all will be forgiven”.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, let me read that to you, its, ??? say, “Not to take the Lord’s name in vain”, in the New Testament, it is one of the 10 commandments, where it says in Exodus 20:7, “you shall not take the name of the Lord in vain, for the Lord your God will not hold him guiltless, who takes His name in vain”, not holding you guiltless doesn’t mean you can’t be forgiven, it’s not calling that the unforgivable sin because we’re guilty whenever we break any of the 10 commandments. But God said that just because, when you take God’s name in vain because it’s a word and it’s verbal, some people say, “sticks and stones can’t harm you”, so what if you say something bad about God or if you take His name in vain? God says, “Just because they’re words, do not think you’re guiltless”, but when we repent and confess that sin along with any other sin, God is very merciful or we’d all be in trouble.
Anthony: Okay. Awesome, awesome.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: So, you know, we do have a new book that talks specifically about, well two things, we talk about the name of the Lord that we can send you a copy for free and we have a book called “The Unpardonable Sin”, it’s called Beyond Mercy. What is the unpardonable sin? The Bible does talk about an unpardonable sin, but it never says it is taking the Lord’s name in vain. So if you’d like a copy of that, then call our resource line.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call, 800-835-6747 and the book talking about the name of God, you can ask for that book, we’ll send it to you and also “What is The Unpardonable Sin?” now, the Point of No Return and we’ll be happy to send that to anyone again who calls and asks for it. Our number here to the studio is 800-463-7297. We have David who is listening from Georgia. David welcome to the program.
David: How’s ya’ll families doing?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: We’re doing good, how can we help you David?
David: I was wondering if there was a difference between demon possession and mental illness.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: There is, now of course, if a person was possessed by the devil or being harassed by a demon, it might manifest some of the same symptoms. But then, there are also people … the Bible called them “Lunatic”. And there are those people who just had, they had some kind of mental impairment and I know, the word lunatic in English is a bad translation of the Hebrew word, it actually comes from luna because they used to think the full moon made people crazy, that’s where the word lunatic comes from.
David: Yeah, when I was a kid, I used to (inaudible 10:37) myself.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, well it, it really has nothing to do with the full moon but it, there is a difference and some people, they’ve had psychological issues. Some people it could be because of a biological birth defect or some gene or chromosome, other people may be struggling with some chemical imbalance.
Obviously, if you take drugs that makes a person behave in a crazy way depending on the drugs and the amount. And so chemical changes in the brain can affect the behavior and the mind. And, so if you’re struggling with that, you know, if it is a spiritual issue then, you know, prayer certainly, you know, talk to a pastor and get some counselling and prayer. I do believe God still does heal people and deliver people from demonic harassment but also make sure you get some medical advice and, you know, it could be a purely biological or psychological nature, chemical nature. Pastor Ross, anything to add to that?
Pastor Jëan Ross: No, I think you’ve covered it all Pastor Doug
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Unfortunately, we don’t have a book dealing with that specifically but, you know, again, like you say, prayer is powerful, that can do great things.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yup, we do have actually, a message online called broken chains and it talks about, how to be liberated from demonic harassment and you can listen to the video of broken chains by going to the amazing facts website. It’s a DVD presentation, it’ll stream online, anyone struggling with that, just go to Amazing Facts, click on our media library and you can even just do a search for broken chains.
Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s just simply “Amazingfacts.org”, amazingfacts.org, and you go to the free video library. We have George who is listening from New York. George welcome to the program.
George: Yes, good evening, how are you? Good to hear your voice brother Doug, New Jerusalem, is it a, is it a cube, is it a pyramid of the trapezoid, what is the shape of the exact shape of it? Because it say, it says, it’s, you know, it’s.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: It’s length, its breath, its height are the same. Yeah, that, that is a very interesting verse. In one place it tells us in Revelation, the walls are a hundred and forty four cubits but it never says high. Some have asked though are the hundred and forty four cubits wide? You know, there were some walls in ancient cities like Babylon and Nineveh that historians tell us, were so wide, it was like an interstate on top of the wall.
George: True
Pastor Doug Batchelor: And, you know, the walls of Babylon in particular were like fifteen miles on each side, it was just a mass of a city. And then, you have a, that verse that says that the length, the breath and the height of it are the same, or are equal, you have that?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah, the verse I’m looking at it. It’s Revelation 21:16, let me read it, it says, “The city lies foursquare or inner square, it’s length is as great as its breath and he measured the city with a reed, twelve thousand furlongs, it’s length, breath and height are all equal”, then in 17 it says, “Then he measured its wall, 144 cubits according to the measure of a man that is the angel”.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now I’ve heard some good scholars George that have said, that you have the, you know, it’s a square city at the base. There’s no question about that because it tells that there are 4, there, there are 3 gates on each wall, a total of 12 gates. It’s square on its walls and it’s base, but the fact that it’s a hundred and its height is equal, it would take the city right out of the atmosphere, now that shouldn’t bother us because, you know, God says, “You can’t imagine the things that the Lord has prepared” and if God is going to move the capital of the universe to this planet, then it wouldn’t surprise us, it’s going to be a majestic city, we can’t even imagine.
George: Sure, sure, so we determine the base, what about the, what about the apex to top, is it, is it.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: I’ve seen artists conceptions that have made it look like a pyramid and I’ve seen them where they make it look like a cube.
George: Right (Laughing)
Pastor Doug Batchelor: So it’s hard, you know, the, in the original Greek there, you can interpret it either way and there’s just, I’ve never found anything that would tell you which way to interpret that.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Know just, it’s a big city, even if we’re not quite sure whether the height is going to be exactly the same as the base or the width but based upon the 12,000 furlongs, you’re looking about one wall stretching about 350 miles, 344 miles roughly and that’s just on the one side
George: Sure.
Pastor Jëan Ross: So you, you square that up and you got something close to the size of the state of Oregon so that’s a big city.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, there’s room, there’s room for us, that’s the good news friends,
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: If you’ve ever been afraid …
George: Room for a lot of us, from, all the way from Adam to Revelation.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Absolutely, its, you think of all the people you can fit in New York city where I used to live and it’s you know, that’s only like 7 miles by five miles, think about how many you could fit in the state of Oregon if it was a city?
George: Now the, the last thing, if I may bring it up. Revelation 3:10, does that explicitly state about the rapture as a confirmation?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: I’ve not understood that this represents the rapture, let me just make sure I’m looking at the right verse here. “Because you’ve kept my commandments, I’ll also keep you from the hour of trial that will come upon the world to test those who dwell in the earth”.
This is talking about the church of Philadelphia and that means, the church of brotherly love, this is not the last church, of course the last church is Laodicea. The trial comes to the last church, but I, I think it’s telling us that the church of Philadelphia existed before that time of trouble comes but I’m not, I’ve never understood that being compared to the rapture, I’ve heard that before but I don’t, I don’t see that in the Scripture.
George: Alright, so you do believe in the rapture don’t you?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: I believe the Lord is going to catch us up to meet Him in the air, what I don’t believe in, is the secret rapture because the Bible says that the Lord will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the arch angel.
George: Right. I guess my question is a (inaudible 16:49)
Pastor Doug Batchelor: I believe that the tribulation happens before we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
George: So then Revelation 3:10, how does that fit into your statement?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: This is the age of the church that exists before the age of Loadicea. Can I send you a book on it? I’ve got a book where I talk about what the Biblical reasons are for believing that the second coming of the Lord happens, immediately following. See, Jesus said, “he that endures to the end will be saved”, endures what? And the question would be, were the children of Israel, the 7 last plagues are the great tribulations, same thing. Were the children of Israel in Egypt during the plagues that fell on Egypt and the answer is yes. Did He preserve them through the plagues? Yes, but they were there.
So God says, He’s saving us through tribulation not from it. And so, you know, Paul said, “it is through much tribulation, we enter the kingdom of God”, so I’m not worried about the tribulation, I think He’s going to preserve His people but it’s through the fiery trials that purifies according to Peter, “Don’t be amazed that the fiery trials that will try your faith as though some strange thing has happened.” So I, you know, I’ll be happy to send you a book on that and it’s called, Anything but Secret. It talks about the rapture and we’ll send that to you for free, Anything but Secret.
Pastor Jëan Ross: George, all you have to do is call our resource line. The number there is 800-835-6747, 800-835-6747 and you can ask for the book, Anything but Secret and we’ll be happy to send that on to anyone who asks. Our phone number here to the studio is 800-463-7297. Good time to pick up your phone and give us a call with your Bible question, that’s 800-463-7297. We have John who is listening in Iowa, Des Moines Iowa. John welcome to the program.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi john, you’re on the air.
John: Hi
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi
John: First time calling in, I just started listening on satellite but, first I had, first of all, I lost both my parents at a kind of a young age, when I was a teenager and went through, kind of a rough patch there but I’ve been a born again Christian since I was real young and I never stopped believing. But just like I said, we was going through a rough time in college and some friends that got a Ouija board and we were kind of messing around with it, and it’s just one of those things that you knew was a bad idea but just kind of, for some reason did it anyway, you know.
And ask any question about my parents and things like that and you know, immediately regretted it because it give some pretty spooky results , threw the board away but it’s just one of those things will go (inaudible 19:39), just still hard core judgment for those types of things? I know that, New Testament forgives, you know, all sins are forgiven, I guess it’s just a curious thought, you know, that’s something that I should continue to feel guilt over, I mean I’ve asked for forgiveness a million times over so, one of those things that kind of just bugs you for a long time.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, I, you know, I think it was the Holy Spirit that impressed you, that there was something unhealthy about it, we had a Ouija board when I was a kid too and it was very spooky and we, I know now, looking back that we were, I was not a Christian but we were, we were playing with spiritualism and demonic forces when we were doing that. Even though it’s a Milton Bradly game who’s really, who I think own a copyright on that but it’s really delving into the medium and consulting the dead.
But when you realize that, you turn from it. There were kings in the Bible that got involved in those things and they, repented and God forgave them so, you know, the good news is, the blood of Jesus Christ is sufficient to forgive us and cleanse us from all sin and He can save us from just, yeah, all kinds of spiritualistic things we do when we don’t know better and if we repent, He’ll forgive. So I wouldn’t worry about it anymore, God is a better forgiver then we are sinners.
John: Well, that’s definitely a relief and, I guess, and I just, needed to hear again, so thank you.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: We’ll be happy to send you that lesson we’re offering tonight on astrologers and psychics. It’s got the Scriptures we referenced earlier but we’ll plus quite a few more.
Pastor Jëan Ross: All you have to do is call our resource line 800-835-6747, you can ask for the study guide, Does God inspire astrologers and psychics? We’ll be happy to send that again to anyone who calls and asks. We have Marie who is listening from Honolulu Hawaii. Marie welcome to the program.
Marie: First time, first time caller.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: We’re glad to have you.
Marie: Thank you, I just, I didn’t even know about your program, I just happened to turn the radio on (Laughing).
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, we hope its habit forming.
Marie: (Laughing) Well yes. I’m currently in a study in Jonah and we were ending it this week in chapter 4 and I’m not quite understanding. What my take away is and I’m with him in the first and the second chapter where he, you know, he repents and he seems to be thankful that he’s rescued, you know, from the fish. And then in chapter 3, he obeys God, he goes and he preaches to Nineveh, but in 4, I can’t understand this anger, I don’t, I don’t understand why his attitude is so.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, let me help you a little bit, Jonah didn’t want to go to Nineveh in the first place because the Israelites and the people of Assyria were just blood enemies and the idea, if God was going to destroy the Syrians because of their wickedness, Jonah thought, “Well good riddance, why would you want me to go warn them?” And so he finally goes and warns them that in forty days the city will be destroyed but what Jonah didn’t anticipate, is that there would be this kind of repentance and there was a great revival and great repentance and God decides to show them mercy. And Jonah’s thinking, “well Lord, now I’m a liar, I marched up and down the streets for thirty eight days and warned everyone they’re going to be destroyed because of their sin and now it doesn’t happen and I’m going to look like I was a crazy man.
And he’s feeling sorry for himself because he, he basically feels like, you know, “I came all the way here, went through all these journeys and nothing is any different and God is saying, “Yeah, things are different, you’re pouting because this plant that was giving you shade died and you don’t care that we just saved a hundred twenty thousand people in the city”. Well, he said a hundred and twenty thousand kids in the city that don’t know their left from their right, not to mention the people and the animals.
So Jonah sort of represents the Jewish nation in this story, and the church because, you know, God said to Jews among the nations to be a witness and sometimes they just sort of turn into a cloister of their own and the church does that too, we have our own social club when we forget our purposes to reach out, you know, I’ve got a book on Jonah Marie, I’ll send you for free or you can read it online for free, and the book is called, The Sign of Jonah. The Sign of Jonah, you can get it at the Amazing Facts website or call the resource number.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747 and the book again is called, The Sign of Jonah, again you can go to the Amazing Facts website, that’s just “Amazingfacts.org” and you’ll be able to read the book online. We have Sherry who is listening from Saint Paul Minnesota. Sherry welcome to the program, you’re on the air.
Sherry: Hello pastors.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening.
Sherry: I’m a repeat caller and I have a question on Leviticus and it starts with chapter 23 on but basically I’m focusing on verse 31, I understand about the weekly Sabbath, I understand that, that has not been nailed to the cross. However, 31 it says, it is, all that, the atonements and the Pentecost and feast of Tabernacles was not, it says.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now you’re in, let’s just double check; you’re in chapter 23 verses 31?
Sherry: Yeah, well, I’m in
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Okay
Sherry: Yeah, 23: 31.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright
Sherry: And it says here, there’s a (inaudible 25:01) for every trial your generations and all your dwellings and its, its repeated about all the other days also, like The Atonement, the feast of Tabernacles, Pentecost. So I’m just wondering where I could be lead to where that, all those holy days where nailed to the cross.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, the fact that it talks about it being a statue for their generations, sort of isolates it to the generations of Israel and the other laws, like the Sabbath of the 10 commandments where it is written on stone. Whereas the ceremonial Sabbaths are written on paper, the Sabbath of the 10 commandments was spoken by God, whereas the ceremonial Sabbaths are spoken by Moses.
One is written by God’s Finger, one is written by the hand of Moses and it talks about those things. For instance in Colossians chapter 2, I think starting with verse 13, and the 10 commandments were placed in the ark of the covenant, that golden box, whereas the ceremonial laws and the ceremonial Sabbaths where placed in a pocket, on the outside. Now I personally think, there’s still plenty for us to learn from these annual feasts that the Jews celebrated. I think that you can see Jesus in them.
For example, we sort of, still celebrate the Passover whenever we have a communion service, we don’t kill lambs anymore because Jesus is the Lamb and He is the Bread and His Blood represents the grape juice, so the grape juice represents His Blood so you still have the essence of what was in these feasts that’s there for us but there is something that came after sin, to lead us to the cross. The Sabbath of the 10 commandments came before sin. That was part of God’s perfect plan and so it’s something that should continue to last.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And of course all of these ceremonial Sabbaths centered around the temple and the services that where conducted there. When Jesus died on the cross, the veil was rent from top to bottom. It was God saying, “I’m putting an end now to the shadows and these types and ceremonies that pointed forward to the coming of Jesus”.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, so I hope that helps a little bit Sherry.
Sherry: Yeah it’s helped, thank you so much.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we’ve got a book dealing with this, called Feast Days and Sabbaths and we’ll be happy to send that to you Sherry or anyone who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747, that is our resource line, 800-835-6747 and ask for the book, Feast Days and Sabbaths, we’ll be happy to send that to anyone. I think we have time for one more caller before we take a break, no?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Nope, (inaudible 27:46)
Pastor Jëan Ross: where shutting down now, okay.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Were going to be going to a break in just a few minutes, by the way, that book, Feast Days and Sabbaths, it is a really good study. It’s spiritually encouraging, you’re listening to Bible Answer Live.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug were going to be coming up on our midway break in just a moment, we like to let folks know about some of our websites that Amazing Facts has and tonight, we probably haven’t spoken about this website for a while but it’s, it’s a great website. It’s “666truth.org”, “666truth.org”, a lot of people are wondering about what does that number mean, how does it relate to what’s happening in the world today? So take a look at our website.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: I did a little YouTube video as we prepared this website, just a quick summary of all the different things that add up to 666, it’s kind of interesting and we were pleased to see, I think we’ve got, you know, nearly 300 thousand people went and took a look at that, that video on 666, we had fun with it.
I bet a lot of our friends don’t know that if you add up the number’s on a roulette wheel, it comes to 666, or they may not know, if you add up the first, is it the first six Roman numerals, that adds up to 666 and so it’s an intriguing mathematical number, it’s amazing the Bible used it. Going to take a break, we’re coming back.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
Pastor Doug Batchelor: We’re back listening friends and for those who got on board along the way, this is “Bible Answers Live”, if you have a Bible question, something about the Christian life or the Christian walk that you’d like to understand better, if you want to ask us a question about God, we don’t know all the answers but there’s a lot of information in that book called the Bible, call with your questions, 800-God says, 800-463-7297 brings you to the studio, and I am still Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And I am still Jëan Ross, we’re going to go to Brenda who is listening from Oregon, Brenda welcome to the program.
Brenda: Good afternoon, I hope you can understand me, I have meningitis.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: So far so good.
Brenda: Okay great. Well I keep having thoughts about the ark of the covenant, and I’m supposed to do some artwork and they wanted me to include the ark and I’m wondering of the (inaudible 31:42), I mean, you just mentioned that it was the, where the 10 commandments are, which I know and when you mentioned the 2 angels, one at Jesus head, one at Jesus feet, kind of made me think about the ark of the covenant and how it is shaped, and I’m wondering, what is the significance of it in our life today?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, the ark represented on earth the dwelling place of God and in the Jewish mind, the holy of holies was the center of the world’s universe, so to speak. You know for instance, in the world, we think of the promised land as the holy land, right? Israel, they call it the holy land, if you say I’m taking a tour to the holy land, nobody thinks you’re going to New Zealand, or they don’t think you’re going to Nigeria, they always think you’re going to Israel because it’s the center of religion for Jews, Catholics, Protestants and Islam. And in the holy land, you have the holy mountain and on the holy mountain you have the holy temple and in the holy temple you have the holy place and in the holy place you have the holy of holies, and the only thing in the holy of holies, just picture a bullseye on the world was the ark of the covenant and what was in the ark of the covenant, was the greatest artifact in the world.
It was God’s handwriting on those stones and so that represents our hearts also, we want Him to write His Word in our hearts and our minds, the sacred part of your body would be your mind, the sacred part of Christ is His church, they’re the body of Christ, He wants His law in the heart of the church. Now that’s the new covenant, He says, “I’ll write these laws in your heart”, and so, that, to me would be, some of the spiritual significance of why the ark is so significant and relevant.
Brenda: Okay, do we know where it is now?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, you’ve really got, of course the throne of God is still in heaven, you can read in, when you look in Isaiah chapter 6, it talks about God having this vision where, rather, Isaiah having a vision of God, where He’s flanked by two cherubim and that’s like a picture of God’s throne in heaven. The ark on earth was a miniature model of the dwelling place of God in heaven and the earthly ark disappeared just before Nebuchadnezzar ransacked the temple and burned it down.
He took all the valuables out, but evidently, the ark was missing, meaning that, Jeremiah and some of the priests and a lot of people believe this, Jerusalem is absolutely honey-combed with caves under the city. I’ve been there a couple of times and there are caves and tombs all over under the city, they keep, every time they build, they run into another one and they believe that Jeremiah, knowing Nebuchadnezzar was about to breach the walls, he besieged the city that he was going to conquer the city, Jeremiah and the priests hid the ark in a cave. The Babylonians never got a hold of it. It lists all the other artifacts of the temple that were carried off to Babylon, they were brought back from Babylon when the Persians conquered them but it never mentions the ark again.
It never shows up again, probably buried, hidden in a grave and those who knew the secret died and maybe it will be discovered someday. That will be quite a discovery but I think it’s probably within a stone’s throw of where the temple is, one of the many, many tombs they have under the city.
Brenda: Is it true that, I heard that here, Ethiopia claims to have it and I’m trying.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, there’s not a shred of truth to that and I’ll tell you why. The Ethiopians claim that because the queen of Sheba came to visit Solomon, they insist they had some, sort of affair, nothing in the Bible says that Solomon laid a hand on her, that’s totally Hollywood. And they said that she had a child by Solomon and that Solomon liked his child so much, he took the national holy artifact and gave it to him.
The chances of that ever happening, that the priest would ever allow that are beyond absurd and the final thing is long after Solomon died, and long after the queen of Sheba died, it tells us during the time of Hezekiah, the ark is still in the temple, see what I’m saying?
Brenda: Okay.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Says that, in the book of, is it 2nd Kings? So, yeah that’s totally myth, and the idea of it being carried off to Egypt is also a myth. It is true that Pharaoh carried off the golden shields from the temple, it tells exactly what was carried off but the ark appears in the temple years later in the Bible. So it’s not in Egypt, it’s not in Ethiopia.
Brenda: Okay, great, you gave me a lot of more information, thank you. …
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we got a study guide called God Drew the Plans and it’s talking about the temple and talks about the ark of the covenant. Matter of fact, on the cover, there’s a picture of at least an artist’s rendition of what the ark might have looked like.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: There you go.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And we’ll send that to you for free Brenda if you just call our resource line. It’s 800-835-6747 and ask for the study guide, God Drew the Plans, we’ll send that to you or anyone who calls and ask for it. Our next caller is Nelson and he is listening from Baltimore Maryland. Nelson welcome to the program.
Nelson: Hi, how you all doing? Alright, Pastor Doug, I have a question about rebaptism, was baptized maybe around 12 years old and I’m now 60 and, you know, off and on, was in and out of the church for a period of years so yeah, I have a question about that.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, there’s 3 reasons for rebaptism Nelson, one is, if you were not baptized Biblically by immersion, some people were baptized as babies where they really had no choice and that’s not really Biblical. Jesus was dedicated as a baby but He wasn’t baptized till He was an adult. Others are baptized again because they just didn’t understand the truth and you have an example of that in Acts chapter 19, where Paul rebaptizes 12 Ephesian people.
They’d heard about John the Baptist and God but they never heard about Jesus and His ministry and Paul thought they needed to kind of get a fresh start, and they were filled with the Holy Spirit. Third reason is if you have sort of divorced yourself from the Lord and turned and walked off into the world, if you’re going to come back and serve God with both hands, then you might want to make a public testimony of that by being rebaptized and you don’t want to get rebaptized every other year.
Something is wrong with that, that’d be like getting married every other year. Baptism is something that should be as serious as marriage, it’s supposed to be a, you know, lifelong commitment but there’s times when you need to sort of get a new beginning and maybe based on what you said, this is one of those cases, and my final thought on that is whenever you’re in doubt, if you’re feeling convicted, you should do it if you’re in doubt. I don’t know anyone that’s regretted being rebaptized so it’d probably be the safe thing to do.
Nelson: Okay, that answers my question, thank you.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, God bless, drive safe.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Nelson, we got a study guide called, Purity and Power and it’s all about baptism, we talk about rebaptism in the study guide as well. If you’d call our resource line 800-835-6747, ask for the study guide Purity and Power we’ll be happy to send it to you. Our next caller is Sonia and she is calling from Silver Springs Maryland. Sonia welcome to the program.
Sonia: Thank you, Good evening Pastor Ross, Good evening Pastor Doug.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Evening.
Sonia: Okay, thank you for your ministry, I enjoy it very much, I have a question about Isaiah 26:19-21, specifically 20 because I have looked at a video on YouTube and the person on there who was promoting the rapture you said, the 20th verse and that was the first time I’ve ever heard that.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Now you said, Isaiah 26? Verse
Sonia: Verses 19 through 21 because starting with the 19th verse, it sounds like a resurrection and he said the 20th verse is like, people are going to be taken away to be protected from the rapture.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Let me read this for our listeners
Sonia: I’m sorry, not the rapture, the …
Pastor Doug Batchelor: The time of trouble, tribulation.
Sonia: Yes, yes, yes thank you, please.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Sonia, can I read this because we have a lot of folks that, you and I know, what we’re talking about but we want them to hear it.
Sonia: Okay.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: It says in Isaiah 26:19, “Your dead shall live together with my dead body, they shall arise, awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust, for your dew is like the dew of herbs and the earth shall cast out the dead”, it’s talking about the resurrection, “come my people, enter your chambers and shut the door behind you, hide yourself as it were for a little moment until the indignation is passed, for behold the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity and the earth will also disclose her blood and will no more cover her slain”.
Now, he’s really saying these things all together, that there is going to be a resurrection and that, when the Lord comes again, that He will protect His people, this is similar to Psalm 91 were it said, “a thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand but only with your eyes will you see and behold the destruction of the wicked because you have made the Lord, the Most High God your habitation, no evil will befall you, neither will any plague come nigh your dwelling, he that dwells in the secret place of the Most High”, notice it says, hide yourself into the chambers, shut yourself away?
If we’re in God, then He promises to protect us through that tribulation but He goes on to say, you may see a thousand fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand but it will not come nigh unto you. It won’t come near you, so it may be happening all around us, kind of like Noah in the ark, God protected him but there was a storm out there but he was in the middle of it.
Sonia: Okay.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: So we don’t have to worry about the time of trouble but, yeah I know a pastor that used it that way before and I respectfully disagree with applying this to the rapture.
Sonia: Okay, I thought so, so if like symbolically speaking, not actually going somewhere and hide, physically hiding from it.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: No, God, God’s going to take care of His people, now, we may have to flee into the wilderness, when the tribulation came in the days of the apostles, when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, Christ said, “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, those that are in Judaea, let them flee into the mountains, and don’t even look back for your hat or your clothes” he said, “Just head for the hills” and they did that, so they did have to go to isolated places and God took care of them and we may be in some isolated places but He’ll preserve us.
Sonia: Okay, so it has nothing to do with the so called rapture?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: No, and a matter of fact, I’ll give you one last verse, and that would be, if you look in Daniel and this is, were talking about the resurrection, if you go to Daniel chapter 12 and if you read in verse one, “at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people and there will be a time of trouble such are there never was”, notice here, “big time of trouble such as there never was since there was a nation, even to that time”.
By the way, Christ directly quotes from this verse in Daniel and He tells us to read Daniel and understand it and he goes on and says, “Even to that time and at that time your people will be delivered”, time of trouble, deliverance, everyone who’s found written in the book, that’s “The Book of Life”, verse 2, “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt”. So here, it talks about the time of trouble, first (43:33) says there’s a resurrection and He’ll preserve us through that time. Sonia, can we send you that book, Anything But Secret? And it also talks about the subject of the resurrection and the second coming, tribulation.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call, 800-835-6747, that is the resource line and you can ask for the book, Anything But Secret, we’ll send that to you or anyone who calls. You can also read it at the Amazing Facts website, “Amazingfacts.org”. We have Miranda who is listening from New Jersey, Miranda welcome to the program.
Miranda: Hi, how are you today?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Doing great, thanks for calling.
Miranda: I’m calling because, this is my first time calling and I’m (inaudible 44:19) Deuteronomy 18: 10, where you spoke about, where it says, “There shall be, there shall not be found among you, anyone that maketh his son or his daughterpass through the fire”, what does that mean?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: They had the worship of Molech. Molech was one of the many pagan gods that surrounded the people of Israel in the middle east there and part of worshipping Molech was, they would offer their children, and it’s sort of a, a hideous thing to even get a mental picture of, but they would build a fire under the bronze hands of this idol and they would place their babies, sometimes their firstborn sons on the scolding hands of this and they would say that they have passed through the fire.
When they died, they said they went through the fire and came out into eternity on the other side and it was part of demon worship, you know, they thought they were worshipping Molech, they didn’t think it was a demon but it basically was demon worship and it tells about some of even Hebrew kings that sacrificed their children to the fire and so that’s part of what that was. It was part of the spiritualism.
Miranda: So basically, any type of sacrifice is death?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Child sacrifice, yeah, you know, when the Hawaiians used to toss some of their virgins and people into the volcano. The god Pele, it was Pele worship and yeah, they had all kinds of curses.
I remember when I first went to Hawaii, they said, you take any rocks from Hawaii then you’re going to have the wrath of Pele on you, the fire God. So Molech worship was similar to that and one more thing that the Christians should not be involved in. Hey, appreciate your question Brenda and I hope that helps a little.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Anthony who is listening from Washington, Anthony welcome to the program.
Anthony: Hi, thanks for having me again, I appreciated your first answer, helps me realize I have a bad translation. (Laughing)
Pastor Doug Batchelor: (Chuckles)
Anthony: My question was about 1 Corinthians 11:1-16, talking about head covering, I’m just kind of wondering, men with long hair, hat, there talking about, I don’t know, paper hats, how do you know? I know, I’m not quite sure what they’re saying here.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right, well a part of this verse actually says there is a custom involved in here and, let me see here, yeah, that would be verse 16, if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom or to the churches of God.
So the very fact that he mentions custom here is they may be talking about a custom but there is no question that it was understood that men were not to have long hair especially in battle. If the men that went into battle, I mean if the marines have long hair, it’s really easy for your enemy to get a hold of it and pull you down.
Anthony: Sure …
Pastor Doug Batchelor: kind of like, doing the face mask to a football player but, it’s said; a woman’s hair is her glory. Typically, you know, men as they get older, all men there hair thins, mines thinned a little sooner than most.
But, you know, women, typically, they’ve got different genes and their hair is their glory and God says, it’s given then as a covering, and Hebrew women go into church and they cover their heads, typically Christians go into church, we take our hats off as a sign of respect, both are meant to be a sign of reverence and respect.
Anthony: Right, okay …
Pastor Doug Batchelor: So, you know, they’re really saying that whenever a woman prays or prophecies in public as a sign of respect, she should have her head covered in respect and submission to her husband and I don’t know, that anybody would think that today because it’s just a different custom …
Anthony: Sure.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Typically is when we preach, we put ties on, at least in our church and not that I like it but it’s, you know, when the president gives an important speech, he’s got a tie on and when he doesn’t, he might be open collar, you know what I’m saying?
Anthony: Yes, exactly.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: So, it was a custom back then that was meant to be an appearance of respect.
Anthony: Okay, well thank you very much; you’ve answered my question wonderfully.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Alright, thank you Anthony.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got David who is listening from Virginia, David welcome to the program.
David: Hello
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening.
David: So glad to get on the air, first time caller …
Pastor Doug Batchelor: We’re glad you made it and your question?
David: My question is, should we be paying more attention to the Lunar Sabbath, the reason I asked that is because, know I know in Isaiah 14: 12-14, Lucifer or is, we’re told that Lucifer is going to (inaudible 48:58) over the congregation, talking about the church.
In Daniel 7:25 we’re also told that he is going to change times and laws and I believe these are referring to, like setting up the Sabbath which well before Christ wasn’t even here. They didn’t have a calendar, it was the Romans that set up the Gregorian calendar at 321 AD.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Right.
David: and so forth.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yeah, you know, I would recommend, we’ve had a few questions on this recently, I’d recommend that you go to the website, I think this last week, we’ve got a new article posted there that was written by Eugene Prewitt that, I trust its up there now and it’s called “Sabbath truth”, Sabbathtruth.com.
And, you know, there’s nothing in the Bible that tells us that the Sabbaths where dictated by the moon, the new moon did represent one of the, what do you call that, ceremonial Sabbaths but it was never mentioned in part of the Ten commandments or part of the origin of creation and so the Sabbaths are not dictated by the moon or dictated by a cycle.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we also know Jesus observed the seventh day Sabbath as did the rest of the Jewish people when He was here and then from the time of Christ till now, they have a very accurate record of the weekly cycle.
Some I think, well maybe we got mixed up in the last 2000 years, no, the entire Jewish nation has been observing the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week so I think there’s both Biblical evidence that, yes the seventh day is Saturday and then we can look at historical evidence that we see that, yes, the seventh day is also on Saturday, that’s the Sabbath.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Yup, what we would call the Sabbath. Hey, I hope that helps a little bit David and I appreciate your calling.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got Kevin who is listening from Arkansas, Kevin welcome to the program. Kevin you’re on the air.
Kevin: Hello?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.
Kevin: Hello Doug.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Evening, thanks for calling.
Kevin: I can’t even remember where that verse is but how do you know if you have any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, there’s several lists of the gifts of the Spirit. I think you’ll find one in 1 Corinthians 12 and it talks about, “For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another one the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit”.
Now the gifts of the Spirit are different from the fruits of the Spirit, the fruits of the Spirit are attitudes that every Christian should have and that’s in Galatians 5:22 where it talks about love, joy, peace, so forth.
The gifts of the Spirit, it could be tongues, the ability to understand different languages or interpret them. Gifts of healing by the same Spirit and that’s a list that you’re going to find in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 and you can read the whole chapter and learn more about that.
Matter of fact, 1 Corinthians 12, 13, 14 really talks a lot about the gifts of the Spirit and talks a lot about misunderstanding the gifts of tongues which was common back then.
Kevin: So it’s just something that you get (inaudible 52:04-52:06) past your time?
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well, you know, the Lord tells a parable of the 10 talents and everybody, when they surrender their lives to the Lord, receives some gift of the Spirit, even when Jesus was baptized, He received an anointing of the Holy Spirit and so, if you’re faithful and you’re using those gifts, He multiplies them and sometimes gives you and helps you discover new ones and, you know, I never knew that I would someday be teaching publicly.
I lived as a hermit for over a year because I was afraid of people. I had no idea I had any propensity to do this. So, you know, God, He gives you gifts and He develops them and as you give them back to Him, they improve. Hey, thank you Kevin, were going to try and squeeze in at least one more call before the, the bell rings.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We’ve got Justin who is listening from Texas, Justin welcome to the program
Justin: Yes …
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hi Justin, your question?
Justin: Yeah, so my wife and I were driving and we were talking and our question is, why is it, and I noticed they’re not different but why is it perceived, I would say, the personality of God is different in the Old Testament and the personality of say, Jesus in the New Testament, the God in the Old Testament is also (inaudible 53:22) and He has, you know, the Israelites to kill every man, woman, child, beast when He takes over a city and then Jesus comes along and, and says.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Turn the other cheek and love your enemy.
Justin: Yeah, so I guess … you know,
Pastor Doug Batchelor: Well let me take a crack at it real quick. In the New Testament when we see Jesus, He said to Thomas, if you have seen Me, Thomas said show us the Father and people think that the Father is in charge of the Old Testament and the Son’s in charge of the New Testament, basically, you’ve got the Father speaking in the New Testament, saying, “This is my beloved Son, for God the Father so love the world, He gave His Son”, and so you’ve got the Father and the Son in both Testaments, the New Testament helps us understand more about the God in the Old Testament and the Old Testament helps us understand more about the God in the New Testament.
It’s interesting that when you look, some of the greatest curses in the Bible are found in the New Testament. The seven last plagues and the wrath of God that’s poured out and the great judgment day and the lake of fire are in the New Testament. And in the Old Testament, you find about God’s incredible mercy. Like when He forgave the whole city of Nineveh because they repented and God, you know, He shows incredible patience and mercy with the Israelites, so you’ve really got both and it’s just because people sometimes read certain harsh spots in the Old Testament, they forget there’s a lot of love and mercy in the prophecies of the Old Testament.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You specifically mentioned judgment that came upon the heathen nations surrounding Israel and God had worked with these heathen nations, giving them an opportunity to repent, similar to what had happened in the time of Jonah and the city of Nineveh and yet they did not repent and judgment came upon them. God knew that if they were not judged, they would influence Israel.
Pastor Doug Batchelor: That’s right, He was very loving, very patient. Well friends you can tell we’re out of time, we love to hear from you, Amazingfacts.org, God bless till we talk again.
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