Whale Sounds

There is more noise in the ocean than merely the lap of waves. You can dive down into the sea and not hear these sounds. This is because the small plug of air in your outer ear blocks them out. But upon lowering a hydrophone—an underwater microphone—into the ocean, you discover that the ocean is full of sound. Trigger fish grate their teeth together, sea horses rub their heads against their back spines, and pistol shrimps dislocate their claws when threatened by an enemy. The resulting sound, sounds like gunshots. The greatest noise-maker in the ocean, however, are whales.

The humpback whale song consists of vast roars and groans intersperse with sighs, chirps, and squawks. That description may not sound very exciting but their songs are interesting to listen to and they go on for quite some time. Each song can last 10 minutes or more. Once completed, the whale will repeat it again and again for hours. Each year, the songs change somewhat as whales experiment with changes in tunes.

The largest creature in the world is, of course, the blue whale. Some have been measured at a 100-feet in length. It has the largest lungs and vocal cords in the world as well and it makes the most noise. A blast of a 188 decibels has been reported. The blue whale is much louder than a jet which reaches only 140 decibels. This extraordinary loud whistle can be heard for hundreds of miles underwater. Theoretical calculations by Roger Payne and Douglas Webb from the 1970s predicted that the loudest whale sounds might be transmitted across an entire ocean.

Well friends, stay tuned for more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live!

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Jëan Ross: Welcome to Bible Answers Live brought to you by Amazing Facts Ministries. Are you looking for a clear, concise answer to your most challenging Bible questions? Maybe you’re struggling to understand difficult passages of Scripture. If so, you’ve come to the right place. Join us now as we open God’s Word to discover His will and find honest, practical answers to your Bible-related questions. This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible question, call us Sundays from 7 to 8 P.M. Pacific Standard Time at 800-GOD-SAYS; that’s 800-463-7297. Now, let’s join our host, author, speaker, and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Hello friends! This is Pastor Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug Batchelor is out this evening. He’s actually returning from Michigan where he’s just completed a very exciting series called, “Most Amazing Prophecies.” It was a nine-part presentation dealing with the most important, the most fascinating prophecies of the Scripture. And if you’d like to know more about this seminar that’s just finished, I would encourage you to the Most Amazing Prophecy website; it’s just simply www.mostamazingprophecies.org and you can actually watch the presentations given by Pastor Doug Batchelor dealing with the most important and the most amazing prophecies of the Bible.

This is Bible Answers Live and if you have a Bible-related question, this would be a good time to call. The number to call is 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That’s 1-800-463-7297. The phone lines are now open. And so if you like to call us, we would be happy to take your question on the air tonight.

Friends, we recognize that whenever we study the Bible, we need the Holy Spirit’s leading and guiding, after all, the Bible is God’s Book. And so, we’d like to begin this program with a short prayer.

Dear Father, we thank You for Your Word. We thank You for indeed, it is a light unto our path. It shows us the way to heaven. Be with us tonight as we study the Bible. Be with those who are listening and those who will call in with their Bible questions. Help us Father to give them clear answers from Your Word. For this we ask in Jesus’ name. Amen!

Friends, we began the program by talking about sounds under the ocean. You might be wondering why Amazing Facts and Bible Answers Live begin their program with an amazing fact. Let me give you a little bit of history. Amazing Facts is about 40 years old. And it began with a short radio program done by Joe Crews, the founder of Amazing Facts. And at the beginning of each of his programs, he always gave an amazing fact and then follow it up with some lesson from the Bible. We’ve kept the tradition going and so, at the beginning of each of our programs, we like to begin with an amazing fact.

The one that I opened this program with dealt with noise under the ocean and we spoke about the loudest animal in the world—and that, of course, was the blue whale. Did you know that the loudest animal on land is the howler monkey? Living out in the Central and South America, in the jungles, the howler monkey is extremely loud! But what about the sky? As I read about this amazing facts, I wondered, “What is loudest sound that’ll come from the sky?” The loudest sound to come from the sky is yet in the future.

The Bible tells us in 2 Peter 3:10, “But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night in which the heaven shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. And the earth also, and the works that are therein, shall be burnt up.” So the loudest sound to come from the sky is yet in the future and it’s connected with the Second Coming of Christ. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 we read, “For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.” Well friends, there is nothing secret or quiet about the Second Coming of Jesus. Revelation 1:7 tells us that when Jesus comes again, every eye will see Him, and without a doubt, every ear will hear when Jesus comes. You won’t get up one morning and open up the newspaper and read that Jesus came the day before. No! When Jesus comes, everyone will see and hear Him.

That brings us to our free offer for tonight, dealing with this important subject of the Second Coming of Christ. It is a little book written by Pastor Doug Batchelor himself. It’s entitled, “Anything But Secret,” dealing with the Second Coming of Christ. If you would like a free copy of this book, all you need to do is call our resource number. The book again is, “Anything But Secret,” written by Pastor Doug Batchelor and the number to call—our resource number—is 1-800-835-6747. That’s 1-800-835-6747. The free offer, “Anything But Secret.” Now, don’t get confused, that is our resource number. If you would like to give us a question on the air or ask a question—Bible-related question—the number you want to call is 1-800-GOD-SAYS or 1-800-463-7297. 1-800-463-7297. And I see that there are still some lines open so this will be a good time for you to call to get your question on the air.

Another way that you can give us questions is via the Internet. To do so, you can go to the Amazing Facts website, just www.amazingfacts.org and then click on the link that says, “Bible Answers Live,” and there, you’ll find a place where you can type in your Bible-related question. At the beginning of each of our programs, we want to deal with a few of these Internet questions that come in. And so, tonight, I have two that I’d like to look at. The first question that came in is simply, “How were people saved before Christ?” So back in Old Testament times, how did people or how were people saved?

Acts 4:12 says that “there’s no other name given among men whereby we must be saved” and that name is Jesus Christ. So it’s important for us to note that everyone who’s saved, whether they lived in the Old Testament times or the New, they were all saved through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Romans 4:3, talking of Abraham, says that he believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. So we know from the New Testament that we are saved by grace through faith but those who lived before the cross, they we also saved by faith. They believed in the promise of a coming Messiah who would die to atone for the sins of the whole world. Abraham is set forth as an example of one who did have faith in God and believed in Him—believed in the promise of the coming Messiah—and that was counted to him for righteousness.

And then another verse in Revelation 13:8 speaking of Jesus. It says, “The Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.” Well, we know that Jesus died after the earth was about 4,000 years old—2,000 years back. What does it mean when it says that Jesus was slain or the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world? That means that the atoning sacrifice of Christ was available to everyone—from Adam and Eve who first sinned—throughout the human history, the atoning sacrifice of Jesus was available to those who had faith in God. The difference between now and then is that today, we look back in faith to the atoning sacrifice of Jesus—we look back to the cross. Those living before the time of Christ, they looked forward in time to the same event—to the Promised Messiah who would come and would atone for their sins. That’s part of why the sanctuary service, there was the sacrificing of animals. These animals were a type or a shadow of the Great Sacrifice of Jesus, the Lamb of God who would lay down His life for the sins of the world.

The second question that’s come in that I’d like to address has to do with the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart. This is a question we have quite often. It says, “The Bible says that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, but doesn’t that seem unfair? What does this mean?” Well friends, it’s important for us to note that the Holy Spirit pleads with all people—you read about that in John 1:9. The Holy Spirit is like the signing… the shining of the sun—shines upon everyone. And the same sun that hardens clay also melts wax. The Holy Spirit affects people differently depending upon how hard they are. Some people—under the promptings of the Holy Spirit—will actually harden their hearts whereas others, they might respond, their hearts might be softened. A couple of verses that you might want to keep in mind, 1 Samuel 10:6 and Zechariah 7:12, deal with this of how the Holy Spirit speaks to the heart. And in some cases, people harden the heart, in other cases, the heart is softened. Pharaoh actually hardened his own heart by resisting the Holy Spirit. And you can look up Exodus 8:15 and verse 32. And chapter 9:34 deals with this.

What about Judas and Peter? Here we have an example of Christ who ministered to both of these disciples. Peter’s heart was softened by the influence of the Holy Spirit, by the influence of Jesus. But on the other hand, Judas’ heart was hardened even to the point where he went out and sold his Master for 30 pieces of silver. So when the Bible talks about God hardening Pharaoh’s heart, that same Holy Spirit that softens the heart of one can also harden the heart of another depending upon the decisions that that person makes.

Well friends, I hope that helps in these two questions that have come in. And again, if you would like to send us a question via the Internet, just go to the website, www.amazingfacts.org and then just click on “Bible Answers Live” and there’ll be a place where you can type in your Internet question. If you would like to call with a question tonight, we still have a few lines that are open. You can call 1-800-GOD-SAYS; that’s 1-800-463-7297. And we’re going to go to the phone lines right now. And our first caller is Joseph listening on WMCA, listening from New York, New York. Welcome to the program!

Joseph: Good evening, sir!

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hello, Joseph!

Joseph: Sir, I’d like to start by saying I’m a firm believer in prayer. But I had a friend that was an atheist and he mentioned to me that during World War II, there was… well, there was 14 million people killed in the death camps—the concentration camps. And they were all innocent and they all prayed. He says, “What good did it do? They all prayed and none of them was saved.” He said, “There is no value to prayer.” He felt that we’re wasting our time talking to nobody. And I tried to give him an answer but I don’t think I gave him a good one. I’m just wondering if you could help along with that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Joseph, that’s a great question. Why is it sometimes that people pray and it seems that God does not answer their prayer? Why do bad things happen to good people—even people of faith? You know, I think part of the question that we need to keep in mind is that this world is not the end. You know, this world in not our home—for the Christian. Our home is in heaven, we’re just passing through. And because we live in a world where there is sin—because we live in a world where there is suffering—good people suffer, good people are hurt, good people die. Unfortunately, that’s the result of sin. But the good news is even when we do suffer—when we do go through trials and difficulties—through prayer, we are sustained and strengthened by God Himself.

I’m reminded of the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego where they stood before King Nebuchadnezzar—you’re probably familiar with that story—and they refused to bow down to the golden image and they were cast into the fiery furnace, the Bible tells us then that Nebuchadnezzar looked into the fiery furnace and he saw the form of a fourth Man that was the Son of God. And so, that tells us God doesn’t always deliver us from the fiery furnace but if we go through the fiery furnace, God is there with us. Now, there are stories of people who had miraculous… miracles done for them during the Second World War, who survived some of the worst situations but they were many who did pray and they were not delivered. But we can take courage that God is fair and just and if they had faith in God and they trusted in Him, God sustained them and took care of them even through that difficult period that they went through. And then, of course, we have the promise that if we remain faithful to God then when Jesus comes, we’ll receive a reward and rule with Him forever.

Does that make sense, Joseph?

Joseph: Yes. It does but of course, he was pragmatic and he said they all… they wasted their time praying because none of their prayers were answered. They were all killed…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well you know, if someone’s just praying to get something like, you know, you’re facing a difficult situation or maybe your life is being threatened and so you pray just so your life can be spared, I don’t know if that’s really the right reason to pray. I mean, we don’t just pray for our physical needs to be taken care of but more importantly, we want to pray that spiritually, we might be strong. Does that make sense?

Joseph: That makes sense, sir, but some of the people were good, honest, religious people I presume yet they were killed also.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, even back in the time of the disciples. We know that all of the disciples but one was actually martyred for their faith. And then, of course, during the Dark Ages, there were countless thousands who gave their life. Why didn’t God deliver all of them?

Joseph: I don’t know.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, I think one day, God will explain His purposes and His plans but for now, we can take courage to know that whatever we face, God is going to face it with us. And He’s going to give us the strength and the power to endure whatever it is that comes our way.

Joseph: Would it be fair to say, Pastor, that there really is no answer to that?

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, I don’t think there’s a clear answer from our perspective. But I think when we get to heaven, the answer’s going to be crystal clear…

Joseph: We’ll find out, yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And we’re going to be able to say, “Yes, Lord, I understand. I see why You allowed this to happen,” or you know, we can’t see the end from the beginning but God can. And so, we trust in Him and He provides the strength to sustain us through every trial and difficulty that we may face.

Joseph: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And that give us hope and courage.

Joseph: Thank you so much.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thank you so much for calling, Joseph. Our next caller is Larry and he’s calling from Oregon, listening on 3ABN radio. Welcome to the program, Larry!

Larry: Hello.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi!

Larry: I was watching a re-broadcast of a Bible Answers program on a popular 3Angels Network satellite broadcast today and the speaker was saying that we needed to probably obey all of Moses’ law except for the sacrifice laws. And then, I know that Galatians 5 says that there’s none of Moses’ law that can save you and if you’re going to try that method, then if you’re going to obey one, you must obey them all. And so, my question to you is, what is this law of liberty?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Good question. You’re referring to Galatians 5:1, let me just read it for those who are listening. It says, “Stand fast, therefore, in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and not being tangled again with the yoke of bondage.” Now, Paul is writing here and he’s writing to Christians and Gentile believers who have received Christ and believed the Gospel. There was, at that time, some of the Jewish Christians that were insisting that the Gentile Christians were to follow all of the ceremonial laws which we find in the Old Testament. And what Paul is doing not only here in Galatians but he deals with this in Romans and in Ephesians and in many of the books that Paul is writing. He’s trying to help people understand that the Old Testament sanctuary system with the various sacrifices, with the various feast days and so on, they were all a shadow pointing forward to Christ.

And a way that we know this for sure is that when Jesus died on the cross, what happened in the temple to the veil?

Larry: It tore.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Tore from top to bottom. And who tore that?

Larry: Well, the remaining survivors.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The Bible says that it was done with unseen hands. It was torn from top to bottom. In other words, it wasn’t the priest that did that but God Himself that did that.

Larry: Right, or an angel.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Or an angel. That was teaching us—revealing to us—that the Old Testament sanctuary system with all of the sacrifices and the various ceremonies that go along with it, they were fulfilled in the Person of Jesus Christ. They were the shadow, Jesus is the Substance. Now, when you have the Substance, there is no need of the shadow. Does that make sense?

Larry: Yes, but it doesn’t really answer my core question.

Pastor Jëan Ross: What is the law of liberty?

Larry: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The law of liberty is that which Christ has provided for us, in that we are free from these ceremonial connections of the Old Testament. We are now under a law of liberty—a law of freedom—that comes through the atoning sacrifice of Christ that He has provided for us on the cross. However, let me quickly add that in the Old Testament, there’s more than just one type of law—you have the ceremonial law, you have certain civil laws that governed the nation of Israel, you also have certain health laws, and then, of course, the greatest of all which is God’s moral law which is the Ten Commandments.

Now, some would say that the Ten Commandments came to an end when Jesus died on the cross. But friends, the Ten Commandments did not come to an end when Jesus died on the cross because the Bible tells us that sin is the transgression of the law. And the law that is being transgressed is the Ten Commandment law and Jesus died so that we could be forgiven for our sins and then the Holy Spirit enters our hearts to empower us so that we can keep God’s perfect law of liberty.

Larry: Is it a sin to transgress Moses’ law?

Pastor Jëan Ross: The ceremonial law? No, no. That’s come to an end.

Larry: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The sin was transgression… transgressing the moral law—the Ten Commandment law.

Larry: That’s the source of my confusion, it’s that the speaker on this Bible Answers program on the 3Angels Broadcast was stating that the… all but the sacrificial laws still applied.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, there were more than just the sacrificial laws in the Old Testament dealing with the sanctuary…

Larry: So the sacrificial came to an end…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.

Larry: But the rest of them still applied. And that’s what really got me curious.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The ones that still apply today is, of course, the Ten Commandment law—the moral law—and then there are certain health laws that are applicable today. And the reason they are still applying or applicable todays is because they are health laws that were given by God for us to be healthy. And, you know, just because we’re living in New Testament times doesn’t mean we can’t or we shouldn’t take care of ourselves.

Larry: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And so, looking at the health laws in the Old Testament, they are definitely important to us today as well. The civil laws, they govern the nation of Israel. Today, you know, there isn’t a nation that’s governed by a theocracy the way Israel was where God led them in the cloud and in the pillar, you know, with sanctuary and it was clearly God leading them. So the principles of those civil laws are good and, you know, I think it would be important for governments to consider them but they are not binding as a whole—the civil laws. And then the sacrificial laws that pointed forward to the atoning sacrifice of Jesus—they, of course, were fulfilled at the cross…

Larry: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And today, we look back at the cross and exercise faith in Jesus. It’s almost an insult in way to cling to that which pointed forward to Jesus when the true Substance has come. Does that make sense?

Larry: Yeah. To cling to any of it, really.

Pastor Jëan Ross: To cling to that which is pointing forward to Jesus, yes…

Larry: To cling to any of it…

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s as if we’re saying, “Well, Jesus, Your sacrifice wasn’t all that good or wasn’t complete and so I’m going to add to it a little bit with this or that.” Christ’s atoning sacrifice was complete on the cross.

Larry: Yeah. Galatians 5…

Pastor Jëan Ross: And we can trust in Him…

Larry: Galatians… excuse me, Galatians 5 says that if you’re going to keep one, you have to keep them all.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right.

Larry: And so, I was really… there is that disconnect that the speaker said, “Well, we have to keep those not involving sacrifice” like the… if you touch an unclean animal, then you’re unclean ‘til sundown…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.

Larry: …and I couldn’t agree with it but that’s what he was saying, so…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right. Well, hopefully it shed a little more light on that subject for you.

Larry: Thank you very much.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright, thanks for calling, Larry. Our next caller is Hector and he’s calling from Connecticut, listening on the Internet. Welcome to the program!

Hector: Thank you, Pastor Ross. God bless.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thank you. What’s your question?

Hector: My question is in regards with John 20:23—the proper interpretation for this. I know some religious leaders actually say that they have the power to forgive sin and this is one of the text they take to say that. Also, they go to the Old Testament and say things like, well, when the people of Israel were to forgive the sin of a person. The person will bring a lamb and they will confess the sin to the lamb but they will confess the sin to the man also and also to the high priest.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Let me…

Hector: So they take that as confessing the sin of a person…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.

Hector: …to the man. What is the proper interpretation for that particular verse in John 20:23?

Pastor Jëan Ross: John 20:22. It’s a good question. Let me read it to you. Jesus is speaking to His disciples and He says, “Whosoever, whoso, so every sins he remit”—speaking to the disciples, “they are remitted unto them and whosoever sins he retain, they are retained.” So it’s Jesus talking to His disciples and in the sense He’s talking to the church and He says, “Whosoever sins you remit, they’ll be remitted. But whosoever sins you retain, they will be retained.” Well, first of all, we need to establish Who’s the One that forgives sins. The Bible is very clear that forgiveness comes through Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Of course, the confession is unto Jesus. He’s the only one that can truly forgive us.

So here, we are not talking about forgiving of sins in the sense of receiving the forgiveness that comes from Jesus. But the church does have a responsibility. If someone is openly sinning within the church, let’s say for example, and they are unrepentant for that sin and the church goes and speaks to them and tries to work with them and pleads with them and prays with them. But if they are still stubbornly resisting in that, there does come a point where the church needs to make a decision that they will ask that person not to fellowship with them any longer. And in that sense, if someone stubbornly refuses to repent, the church does need to make a decision or act on it. Likewise, if a person has sinned but they’re repentant of that sin and they asked God to forgive them for their sin, then the church needs to embrace them and bring them in.

So in a sense, the church is acknowledging what has already happened to that person with God. If that person has asked God for forgiveness, then God has forgiven them. If that person refuses to ask God for forgiveness and stubbornly resists and the church is trying to work with that person, there does come a point where the church needs to set that person aside—try their best to bring that person back but if they stubbornly refuse, then in order to preserve the rest of the church, then the church needs to take an action on that person.

And this verse is referring to that responsibility that God has given to the church. It’s not talking about the pastor or the church leader acting as Christ and forgiving people of their sin. Does that make sense?

Hector: It makes sense but, Pastor Ross…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.

Hector: …if the church decide—let’s say, I’m a sinner and I committed a sin of whatever, and the church decide not to forgive me for any of reason, but I’m repentant.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.

Hector: That means that now they are the… they have the right to raise me from the church or to keep me out of fellowshipping with them. That means that God now is not going to forgive me even though I’m repented?

Pastor Jëan Ross: No. I don’t believe that God won’t forgive you if you repented. It’s unfortunate if that happens because hopefully the church will recognize the moving of the Holy Spirit and the moving of God especially if a person is repentant and sorry for what they had done. Our eternal salvation—and this is good news—our eternal salvation forgiveness is not depended upon another human being. It’s depended upon Christ and our forgiveness comes directly from Him. And so, even if the church for some reason chooses not to forgive someone but that person is genuinely repentant and has done the work that God has called them to do, it’s an unfortunate situation but they are forgiven—they’re forgiven in the eyes of heaven.

Hector: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright?

Hector: Thank you. God bless!

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thank you, Hector. Appreciate your call. Let’s go to the next caller. Gary is calling from Chattanooga, Tennessee, listening on WMQM. Welcome to the program!

Gary: Hi, how are you doing?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Fine, thanks.

Gary: My question was…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Gary, what’s your question?

Gary: Oh, okay. My question was… it was dealing with Revelations. It’s a whole part question. I had a two-part question. I’m just making it brief question. It was concerning a 144,000. What’s going to be… who are they and are they the only number going to be raptured up on Jesus’ return…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Good question…

Gary: …and is taken something…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Who are the 144,000? Let me give you a quick background for those who are listening. Revelation chapter 7 begins by describing a group of people who are living by the end of time and they received the seal of God in their foreheads. Chapter 6 finishes up by describing events connected with the Second Coming of Jesus. It’s the last few verses of Revelation chapter 6. And the last verse of Revelation chapter 6 asks a question. The question is, “For the great day of the wrath of the Lamb has come and who shall be able to stand?” That’s the question that’s been asked.

Revelation chapter 7 answers that question and it begins by talking about a group of people who have the seal of God in their foreheads and then it describes them as being a 144,000. Something else is important to notice. Later on in Revelation chapter 7, it talks about a great multitude of people from many nation, kindreds, tongue, a great multitude that no one could number standing on the sea of glass before the throne of God. So these are those who are saved. The 144,000 then represents those living at the very end of time just before the Second Coming of Christ. They also will do a very special work in taking God’s last warning message to the world. Now, don’t get discouraged and say, “Well, a 144,000—that’s not very many people.” The good news is that the 144,000, even though it might represent a portion of those at the end of time—or it could be a symbolic number representing all those at the end of time—the good news is that those who are saved at the end will be of a great multitude from many nations, kindreds, tongue, and people. And everyone who’s going to be saved at the end will have the seal of God.

You know, I hear the music playing in the background Gary. I wish I could’ve spoken a little bit more about that. We’re going to take a short break and come back. When I come back here, I want to mention a resource that you can get—a book that Pastor Doug wrote that deals with the 144,000. Friends, stay tuned! We’ll be right back after the break.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Jëan Ross: Welcome back to Bible Answers Live with Pastor Doug Batchelor. This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible-related question, you can call us from 7 to 8 P.M. Pacific Standard Time on Sundays and receive clear, honest answers directly from Scripture. Call 800-GOD-SAYS. That’s 800-463-7297. Now, please join us as we look to God’s Word for more Bible answers live with author and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.

Hello friends! Welcome back to Bible Answers Live. This is Pastor Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug Batchelor is not with us tonight. He’s just finished up a very exciting prophecy seminar that was uplink live from Michigan and I believe he’s on his way back home tonight. So he should be with us, God willing, next week for Bible Answers Live. If you have a Bible-related question, the number to call again is 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That’s 1-800-463-7297.

I see that there are two lines that are still open. So if you’d like to call in with your Bible question, this would be a good time to do it to get on the air this evening. I’d also like to remind you the free offer that we’re making available to those of you who call in. It’s entitled, “Anything But Secret.” It’s a little book written by Pastor Doug Batchelor and it deals with the Second Coming of Christ. If you would like to receive this free offer, just call our resource number. The number is 1-800-835-6747, and ask for “Anything But Secret.” That number again is 1-800-835-6747.

Now, just before we took the break, I was talking to Gary and we’re talking about the 144,000. His question was, who are they? Are they the only ones that we’ve saved when Jesus comes again? And I tried to address as quickly as we can who they are. I wanted to let you folks know that Pastor Doug has written a book dealing with the 144,000 and it’s simply titled, “Who are the 144,000?” And we’re going to make that a free offer tonight as well for anyone listening. If you would like to get this book dealing with the 144,000, call our resource number. The number again is 1-800-835-6747; that’s 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the book written by Pastor Doug Batchelor, “Who are the 144,000?”

Well friends, we’re going to go to the phone lines and Marcus is listening from Kayleen, Texas in KJHV. Welcome to the program!

Marcus: Yeah…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Marcus, you there?

Marcus: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi!

Marcus: My question is about Saturday, the day of the Sabbath, like how can we be sure of that?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. That’s a good question. We know that in… according to the Ten Commandments, the fourth commandment says that we need to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. So we want to make sure that the day we are keeping holy is indeed the Sabbath.

Marcus: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: How can we be sure what day the Sabbath is on? Now, of course, as you’re aware, today in Christian circles, this question is looked at from different perspectives. You might say…

Marcus: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: …some feel that the Sabbath is on the first day of the week, which would be Sunday, but others hold to the teaching that the Sabbath is on the seventh day of the week, which should be Saturday. Now, according to the commandment, the fourth commandment, which deals with the Sabbath, the Bible says, “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days you are to labor and to all live your work,” and by the way, this is in Exodus chapter 16. Exodus chapter 20 also deals with that. Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days you are to labor and do all your work but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.” So what day is the seventh day?

Marcus: It…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, first of all, if we look at the Jewish nation as a whole, what day do they observe as the Sabbath? Which day of the week?

Marcus: I’m not too sure of it…

Pastor Jëan Ross: The Jewish nation observes Saturday as the Sabbath…

Marcus: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: …as the seventh day of the week. Something else that’s interesting to note is that when Jesus was here on this earth, He also observed the seventh day or Saturday as the Sabbath during His time that He was here on this earth. Then we find throughout the Christian era from the time of the disciples onwards, there’s always been a group of people who have observed the seventh day or Saturday as the Sabbath throughout the Christian era. Now, to be absolutely sure which day of the week is Saturday, let me just ask this simple question. What day did Jesus die on? Are you familiar with that?

Marcus: Yeah, I forget.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Let me help you out. We talk about the day that Jesus died on has been crucifixion Friday.

Marcus: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And so, the Christian world believes that Jesus died on a Friday and that’s correct. The Bible…

Marcus: And he rose…

Pastor Jëan Ross: He rose on the first day of the week which should be Sunday, right?

Marcus: A Sunday, yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Right? Sunday. So if Friday was the day that Jesus died on the cross, and that was the preparation day—because it says Sabbath was drawing near—you can read about this in Mark chapter 15 and also Luke 23 and Luke 24. It talks about the day that Jesus died was the preparation day and the Sabbath was drawing near and so they laid the body of Christ in the tomb and then His disciples—those that were there, the women that were there—they went back and observed the Sabbath according to the commandment and then early the first day of the week, which would be Sunday morning, they came back to the tomb to finish their work of embalming the body of Jesus. And when they got to the tomb, they were in for big surprise. The stone was rolled away and they looked in and Jesus was there.

Marcus: Yes…

Pastor Jëan Ross: But He had risen from the dead. So based upon that fact, based upon the Jewish nation as a whole, the day that they observe based upon the Ten Commandments, and they just based upon a calendar—the seventh day of the week is on Saturday. It’s pretty clear from the Bible that…

Marcus: Yeah…

Pastor Jëan Ross: …the Sabbath would fall then on what we call “Saturday” today.

Marcus: Okay, but one more thing about the calendars, how can we be… okay…

Pastor Jëan Ross: How can we be sure that the calendar wasn’t changed?

Marcus: Yes…

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s a good question, Marcus. You know, the calendar was changed…

Marcus: I read a lot…

Pastor Jëan Ross: …the calendar was changed a number of times.

Marcus: Yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: But the interesting thing about the calendar, it was changed as far as the day of the month but not the day of the week.

Marcus: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: For example, the calendar might have been October 5 and then they changed it to October 15. But October 5 was Thursday and then they jumped forward a few days to say October 15 but the very next day was Friday. So the continuity of this 7-day week was always kept in place irrespective of what happened to the calendar if they moved or if they cut a few days—it always stayed the same. Monday was always followed by Tuesday. Tuesday always followed by Wednesday and so on.

Marcus: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Aright. Well, Marcus, we appreciate your call. Thank you for your question. It’s a very good one and a very important one.

Marcus: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Now, we’re going to go to the next caller now. And it is Roy listening from New York on WMCA. Welcome to the program, Roy!

Roy: Oh, yes. Good evening!

Pastor Jëan Ross: Good evening, sir!

Roy: The sixth commandment, I’ve been told and it said that “Thou shalt not kill” or “Thou shalt not murder.” Is that correct or?

Pastor Jëan Ross: That is correct.

Roy: Okay. Then what is the view on killing in general? Is there a spot where it’s okay? And how does that tie in with turning the other cheek?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Good question. What we need to understand as far as the Ten Commandments go, they are rule of faith for us as individuals. God calls us individually to keep the commandments—all ten of them. Now, the first four of the Ten Commandments have to do with our relationship with God and the last six have to do with our relationship with our fellow men. That’s why when Jesus was asked, “Which is the greatest commandment in the law?” Perhaps you’re familiar with that passage of Scripture. Jesus responded and said, “The greatest commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all of thy heart, soul, and mind, and with all of thy strength. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” Well, what Jesus did is in that response, He summarized the first four commandments as loving God. You see, if you love God with all of your heart, you won’t take His name in vain, you won’t have any other gods before Him, you won’t worship idols, and you’ll remember the Sabbath to keep it holy.

If you love your fellow men as yourself, then you won’t kill, you won’t commit adultery, you won’t steal, you won’t lie, you won’t bear false witness, and you won’t covet that which is your neighbor’s. So in those two commandments that Jesus gave, they really do sum up the whole law. So from my personal perspective, we want to keep all of the commandments—all ten of them. And the commandment that says, “Thou shalt not kill,” we want to keep that as well. More accurately translated though, you’re correct, is “Thou shalt not murder.” And so, any type of pre-meditated killing would be wrong according to the commandment.

Now, from a civil perspective or a governmental perspective—on the one hand, we have the Ten Commandments that says “Thou shalt not kill” but then, on the other hand, we read in the Bible in the Old Testament that if someone did kill, then it was up to the civil authorities to execute punishment against that person and that punishment was death. So in that case, if for example, someone is acting on behalf of a state or someone was fulfilling the punishment that was due to someone, then it would be a little different than them being held guilty as if they went out and killed someone. Does that make sense?

Roy: Yeah. I was more concerned with the spiritual aspect. In other words, if somebody would lose, say, attacking a child or something and I stopped them or somebody stopped them and killed that person, what would… how would, you know, what…

Pastor Jëan Ross: What does that mean? Well, you know, first of all, even in our civil system, if something like that happens, they don’t refer to that as murder, do they?

Roy: I don’t know what they refer…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah. They won’t refer to that as murder if… what exactly in self…

Roy: But it is killing, though.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. In self-defense or if it’s by accident—there’s an accident—someone steps out in front of you when you are driving, no. No, then it’s not in the case of… you wouldn’t be characterized as a murderer if something like that happens.

Roy: Yeah. I know a murderer you wouldn’t. But killing, it would be. But I’m not talking about civil, I’m talking about spiritual now. How does that tie in with the spiritual?

Pastor Jëan Ross: If somebody’s coming against us, are we allowed to use force…

Roy: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: …to protect ourselves? You know, that’s a good question. First of all, let me say this. We are promised by God to be protected. And if we follow the example that Jesus gave, do we ever see Jesus using force to resist evil against Him?

Roy: No. That’s what… that’s, you know, but I mean, we’re you know, we’re not Christ or we try to be but still and all.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know what? I think it really has to do with the matter of faith. Are we believing that Jesus is able to take care of us irrespective of the situation or the circumstance that we find ourselves in? You know, I know this is difficult because in the heat of the moment, the natural response is to try and defend ourselves…

Roy: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, it is a challenge. But if we do look at the example of Jesus and we look at what Jesus said, He said, “Resist not evil.” And then what did Jesus say to Simon Peter when he pulled out his sword and chopped off the high priest servant’s ear? Jesus said, “Put away your sword. He who lives with the sword shall die with the sword.”

Roy: Yeah. I think I could do… I like to think I could do that to myself. But if I see a child, it’s another story. I don’t know if I could…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah, absolutely. I can understand where you’re coming from. You know, I think in that situation, we want to be as close to God as we possibly can be so that He can guide us in that situation. I mean, that is… that would be very difficult especially if it was one of our own kids.

Roy: Yeah.

Pastor Jëan Ross: What do we do? What would God have us do in that situation? Obviously, He doesn’t want us to just stand there…

Roy: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: …and get beaten up. I mean, the Bible says, “If you’re persecuted in one city, then flee to another.” So there is a certain amount of response that we need to have. But in a specific situation that’s why we got to pray for divine guidance and help. What we do know is that God will be with us.

Roy: Yes, yes.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And He’s promised to protect us. We want to ask for the grace and strength to trust in Him in every situation. Well, Roy, I hope that helps. You know, that is a tough question.

Roy: That’s a great answer. Pray for divine… that’s the key, I think.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Pray for divine… yup! And be close to God so if we do find ourselves in that situation, we will be guided by Him.

Roy: Right.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, that’s really the goal. But it is a challenging question and I don’t think we can give a definite answer for every single situation because situations vary so much. But I think if we are close to God, He will guide us and give us wisdom in those difficult situations.

Roy: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Thanks so much for calling and that’s a good question, Roy. Thank you. Our next caller is Benjie listening on KFIA in Sacramento, California. Welcome to the program!

Benjie: Yes. How are you doing today?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Fine, thank you.

Benjie: Good, good. I have a question for you. The question I have for you is this. I talked to some friends and how I understand the Bible is the Holy Spirit is part of the Trio—the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.

Benjie: Some of them, according to what the Bible says and according to what they believe and I don’t know why, they don’t believe this. For me, it’s very simple to understand that the Bible was written by God through man for the most educated to the most uneducated people to understand that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure.

Benjie: So therefore, why some people would believe that the Holy Spirit is not part of the Father and the Son? I don’t know. But how do I explain to them? Like if I…

Pastor Jëan Ross: How do you explain to them? Yes, that’s a good question. First of all, let me just back up to what you’re saying. I agree and I think Scripture is very clear that the Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead. Just the very words of Jesus when He said with the Great Commission in Matthew 28, “Go and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” And then, of course, we have many instances in the Bible where it talks about the Spirit that sanctifies in 1 Peter 1:2. It talks about the Holy Spirit that does the work of a Comforter, John 16. It talks about being led by the Spirit of God in Romans 8:4. It talks about the Holy Spirit making intercession on our behalf, Romans chapter 8. And you know, I can go on and on talking about the various characteristics of the Holy Spirit.

And so, from Scripture, I believe it’s clear that the Holy Spirit is one with the Godhead. And you know, one other thing I might want to mention on that and then we’ll get to how we can share this with other, one of the things that I do at Amazing Facts is I teach on the book of Revelation. And in the first chapter—the book of Revelation—we have John writing to the seven churches and he gives a greeting and the greeting is, “From Him who is, who was, and who is to come—the Almighty,” which is God the Father. And then he says, “And from the seven Spirits which are before His throne,” and then he says, “From Jesus Christ who is the Faithful Witness.”

And so there, we have all three members of the Godhead. Now, don’t be thrown off by seven Spirits.

Benjie: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number “7” is a symbolic number and it represents completeness in the Bible.

Benjie: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s talking about the completeness of the Holy Spirit. And so, we have God the Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ. In the very last book of the New Testament, we have all three members of the Godhead present—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Well, how do we share this with others?

You know, we could take to them probably some of the Scriptures that I’ve just mentioned dealing with this and prayerfully try and share it with these people. But it’s important that we recognize the role of the Holy Spirit. You know, we’re also told that in the Last Days, the Holy Spirit will be poured out in a special way and God will empower us to be His witnesses just like on the Day of Pentecost—where the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples. We want to make sure that we have a clear understanding of the Holy Spirit of higher works and what He does because the devil also has a counterfeit. And he’s going to try to deceive people with the counterfeit.

So understanding the truth about the Holy Spirit is very, very important. You know, I have several other takes I could give you dealing with the Holy Spirit but just very quickly, let me run through this once more for you. If you have a pen, you might want to just jot them down.

Benjie: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: 1 Peter 1:2…

Benjie: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: …talks about the Spirit sanctifying. The Spirit is a Comforter, John 16:7-11. The Bible talks about those who are led by the Spirit of God—they are the sons of God—that’s Romans 8:14.

Benjie: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Romans 8:26-28 says that the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us.

Benjie: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: John 15:26 says that the Holy Spirit… Jesus speaking, says that when He goes, the Holy Spirit will or the Comforter will come. And then the Holy Ghost will also teach and bring to remembrance, that’s John14:26.

Benjie: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Then last… I’ll give you two more. Galatians 5:22 and 23 talks about the Fruit of the Spirit. And then Romans 8:9 says that if we are Christ’s, we will have the Spirit of God—or the Holy Spirit—living within us.

Benjie: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: So there’s a bunch of texts maybe you can kind of share that with your friends and hopefully, you can help them to understand this important subject.

Benjie: I hope so, too. Do I have time for one more question or no?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know what? I’m looking at the phone lines here and it’s kind of full so unfortunately, you’ll have to hold it of ‘til next week. But give us a call next week.

Benjie: I’ll hold it up, I see.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Thank you, Benjie. Appreciate it. Our next caller is Gabriel and he’s listening on WMCA from New Jersey. Welcome to the program! Gabriel, you there?

Gabriel: Yes. Hi, good day!

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi!

Gabriel: Good day, Pastor. My question will be, is hell somewhere located in the heart of the earth? The reason why I ask that question is that a Scripture in Isaiah14:15 reads, “Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the pit.” And in Ezekiel 32:18, it states, “And cast them down to the depths of the earth.” But again, in Matthew 12:40, it goes again, “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” So…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Where is hell? Alright. Good question.

Gabriel: Very great. Please help me out.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure. I’d be happy to. First of all, what I understand is when the Bible talks about the grave or “sheol…”

Gabriel: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: …it doesn’t necessarily mean a heart-burning place. But the grave is spoken of as “sheol” so anyone who dies and goes down to the grave or goes down to the pit, it’s referring to the grave. Now, what about Jesus when He was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights? Jesus was, in a sense, in the earth because He was placed in a tomb, as you’re familiar with that. But He was also—starting from Thursday evening at the Last Supper—he was surrounded by the devil and His demons. And the devil was inflicting as much pain and anguish upon Christ as he possibly could trying to get Jesus to not go through with the plan of redemption for mankind. But Jesus was faithful to the test.

So the heart of the earth there is not referring to hell because Jesus did not burn in hell. But it’s referring to that time of trial for Christ and then also Jesus, when He was placed in the tomb. So when and where does hell… or when does hell take place and where is it? Well, let me direct you to Revelation chapter 20.

Gabriel: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: If you have a pen, you might want to jot this down. The entire chapter, Revelation chapter 20, deals with something that we call the thousand years or the millennium. And then at the end of this 1,000-year period, it’s very important, it talks about a great white throne judgment and it says, “Everyone that’s ever lived on the earth will be there.” Verse 12 of Revelation 20 says, “And I saw the dead small and great stand before God. And the books were opened, another book was opened—which is the book of Life—and the dead were judged out of those things which are written in the books according to their works.” So here is a time when every person is resurrected who’s ever lived and they stand before God’s final throne.

After this judgment takes place, verse 13—Revelation 20:13—it says, “And the sea gave up the dead that was in it and death and hell—or the grave,” the word “hell” there means grave. “And death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them and they were judged every man according to his works. And verse 14 says, “And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire.” The word “hell” there is grave.

Gabriel: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: “Death and grave were cast into the Lake of Fire.” This is the second death.

Gabriel: So what is the difference between Hades and Gehenna?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Hades and Gehenna. Gehenna… there’s only a few references to the word “gehenna” that we have in the New Testament—that’s a Greek word. And outside the city of Jerusalem, there was the city dump. And people were… refuse were thrown into that city dump. There were fires that are continually burning in the city dump. Even the bodies of folks who didn’t have family or perhaps they weren’t Jews traveling through, or criminals, they were thrown into this pit. So it was sort of the city dump. And Jesus likened the fate of the wicked to that where they will be destroyed.

And so, Gehenna there is not referring to what we find in Revelation chapter 20.

Gabriel: Wow!

Pastor Jëan Ross: But Jesus used that to teach an important lesson about hell.

Gabriel: Oh my!

Pastor Jëan Ross: So hell isn’t burning right now, just to summarize. But hell will take place at the end of time as we read here in Revelation chapter 20.

Gabriel: Interesting!

Pastor Jëan Ross: “And those whose names aren’t written in the Lamb’s book of Life, they get cast.” And by the way, Satan and his angels are cast into the Lake of Fire as well, which is hell.

Gabriel: That’s a good thing.

Pastor Jëan Ross: So the devil… yeah. The devil is not in charge of hell. And that’s good news!

Gabriel: Well, thank you, brother love, I appreciate it.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Well, thank you for calling. Alright, our next caller is Austin and he’s calling from Paradise, California. Welcome to the program! Listening on KRGR.

Austin: Thank you, thank you.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Thank you.

Austin: My question is… it’s about the Holy Spirit.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.

Austin: I read someplace that the Holy Spirit walks up and down in the church. You know, the aisles of the church and its act… the Holy Spirit is actually a Person. And I got to thinking. I wonder, could we go shake the per… when we get to new earth, can we shake the Holy Spirit’s hands?

Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s a good question. First of all, let me just mention that the Holy Spirit—the attributes of the Holy Spirit are always spoken of as the attributes of a person. In other words, the Holy Spirit could be grieved, the Holy Spirit intercedes, the Holy Spirit teaches, and the like. However, when the Bible describes the Holy Spirit, it never describes the Holy Spirit as a person. I used the example a little earlier in Revelation chapter 1 where it talks about the Father sitting upon the throne and then it talks about the seven Spirits that are before His throne. Now the seven Spirits—it’s not that the Holy Spirit is divided into seven parts—but the number “7” represents perfection and completeness. It’s referring to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is spoken of as a Spirit. Jesus, in John 3, spoke about the Holy Spirit as the moving of the wind. So, as far as, you know, being able to walk up and shake the hand of the Holy Spirit now, I don’t know.

Austin: Oh, come on! [Laughing]

Pastor Jëan Ross: We’re going to have to wait until heaven to find out for sure.

Austin: Oh dear!

Pastor Jëan Ross: But from Scripture…

Austin: You know…

Pastor Jëan Ross: …the Holy Spirit doesn’t seem to have a body.

Austin: …He’s not going to testify of Himself and He’s going to testify Jesus as I understand that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Absolutely! Absolutely!

Austin: He was… but maybe in the new earth, maybe He’ll get some of the glory.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, it’s interesting how that works. Jesus gives all the glory to God the Father and the Holy Spirit testifies of the Son, and God the Father gives glory to His Son. And so, all Members of the Godhead, they are all giving the glory to somebody else—to another Member of the Godhead. And that’s because God is love.

Austin: Pat them on the back and good job done!

Pastor Jëan Ross: [Laughing] Yes. Well, you know, the Holy Spirit is doing a very important work and it’s a good question. I guess when we get to heaven, we will know exactly what form the Holy Spirit is in. Well, Austin, we appreciate your call. That was a great question. We thank you for that. We’re going to see if we can get in a few more callers here before we ran out of time.

Our next caller is Jim and he’s calling from Sacramento, California, listening on KFIA. Welcome to the program, Jim!

Jim: How are you, Pastor Ross?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Fine, thank you.

Jim: I have a question how two Scriptures they get to tie in together.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.

Jim: If… well, you referred to a few callers back with John 20:23, whatever sins you remit…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.

Jim: …and whatever sins you retain. How does that tie in or does it tie in with Matthew 16:19 where it speaks of whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. Good question. That’s the same thing that’s been referred to there. Matthew records it as being loosed or bound and the other gospel writer, John, refers to it as whatever you remit or whatever you retain. But basically, it’s the same thing. And again, it’s not talking about the eternal destiny of an individual. You know, our eternal destiny is in the hands of Christ and we’re glad about that. What actually is in our hands, Jesus has provided a way, it’s whether or not we will choose His atoning sacrifice and ask for forgiveness of sins. But the church needs to acknowledge the working of God. And it’s important for a church to recognize that someone has asked for forgiveness. And if they have asked forgiveness and, you know, they’ve repented of sin, then the church is to acknowledge that and recognize that. But if someone stubbornly resists and the church speaks to them and says, “You know, we’re concerned about you, brother. There are these things going on.” But if that individual refuses to hear the church, stubbornly reject it, there does come a point in time where the church needs to decide to ask that person not to fellowship with them. And that is what Jesus is referring to here—the things that the church is required to do in each of these cases.

So it’s the same thing. But it’s looked a little bit and worded a little bit different by the different Bible writers. Does that make sense, Jim?

Jim: Yes. So, and then would that also mean if somebody actually sins against us, of course, we were to… are to forgive them…

Pastor Jëan Ross: Absolutely.

Jim: …that’s to keep that sin that… okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. If someone sins against us, we must forgive. Jesus is always our example. But if someone is stubbornly doing something in the church and if he’s threatening, let’s say, the spiritual stability of the church or the members, then the church needs to take action and do something about it.

Well, you know what? I hear the music playing there in the background, friends. It’s to mean we are running out of time. Bible Answers Live is the shortest hour that we have here. Just a reminder that this is a faith-based ministry and it’s because of your prayers and financial support that we’re able to be on the air. If you would like to help keep this program in the air, please go to our website. And friends, until next week. May God bless you and we look forward to seeing you here again for Bible Answers Live!

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