Hello friends! This is Doug Batchelor. How about an amazing fact?
In 1960, an American physicist with Fused Aircraft Company constructed the first working laser from a ruby crystal rod. Since that time, the laser has revolutionized every realm of modern life. The word “laser” actually comes from an acronym for “Light Amplification by Simulated Emission of Radiation.” I think I prefer simply LASER. With an ordinary beam of light, the photons vibrate and scatter in every direction, whereas, a laser beam is a tightly focused and perfectly aligned beam of light. A laser beam is produced when light bounces back and forth between two mirrors with a special medium like ruby crystals between them. This causes all the photon particles of light energy to vibrate in exactly the same synchronized phase like soldiers in a troop.
Today, lasers are used in virtually every field from communication and industry to medicine and the military. Many modern devices including bar code readers, DVD and CD players, printers all use lasers. These powerful beams of light can also transmit voice or data via fiber optic cables at much improved speeds and capacity. Lasers have also been used to determine very precise measurements with great accuracy. The distance between earth and the moon was measured with lasers to within one inch. In medicine, conventional eye surgery is almost been totally replaced by a mirror full of lasers. In industry, lasers are used to cut, align, and measure with great precision.
When a powerful 10,000-watt laser light is focused on a very small point, it produces tremendous heat that can cut through extremely hard materials. These laser beams can weld, melt, vaporize, and even drill holes in diamonds. In fact, tests are being conducted where scientists focus several powerful lasers on one receptor to produce nuclear fusion. Incredibly, lasers can also produce extreme cold. Normally, when you shine light on something, it heats up. But under the right conditions, laser light will actually cool atoms. In laser cooling, the laser is tuned to such a frequency that atoms traveling toward the beam get slowed down. A number of crisscross laser beams create a trap for the atoms which gets slower and slower and, therefore, colder and colder. With this technique, researchers have used these laser beams to reach temperatures of nearly absolute zero.
The extremes of heat and cold produced by laser light remind me of the words of Jesus that He would prefer we were either hot or cold rather than to be lukewarm. Stay with us, friends! We’re going to know how to apply this as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live!
[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]
Pastor Dick: Welcome to Amazing Facts Ministries’ Bible Answers Live with Pastor Doug Batchelor. Do you find it challenging to understand the Bible? Are there passages of Scripture that confuse you? Is it sometimes difficult to connect what you read in the Bible with what you’ve been taught? Then you’ve found the right program because the Word of God is a quick and powerful sword against evil. Stay tuned to better understand the will of God for your life.
This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible question, lines are open Sundays from 7 to 8 P.M. Pacific Time. Now, here’s your host, the president of Amazing Facts Ministries, author and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Doug: I have always believed this is the best possible use for this miracle of radio—to talk about the Word of God. And that’s why we’re here. If this is your first time tuning in, friends, this is Bible Answers Live. It is a live, international, interactive Bible study. It airs most places weekly around the world. You can also log on to the Internet and listen via amazingfacts.org. And if you have a Bible question, we have some lines open. Now is a good time to pick up your phone and give us a call. If you want to call in with your Bible question, it’s a free phone call. It’s 800-GOD-SAYS; the Bible is our source book. Several lines open so do it now and you’ll probably get your question on the air. 800-463-7297. And my name is Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And my name is Jëan Ross. Good evening, Pastor Doug.
Pastor Doug: Evening, Pastor Jëan, who is sitting in now. He’s, of course, Jëan has been in the program several times but I don’t know that you’ve… I guess once or twice you’ve sat in that seat?
Pastor Jëan Ross: And man the phones. That’s correct, yeah.
Pastor Doug: Yes. And now, you’re doing for a little while, you’re “Dick Devitt” impersonation.
Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right.
Pastor Doug: And we’re glad that you are here and…
Pastor Jëan Ross: Thank you…
Pastor Doug: …looking forward to our time together.
Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s a privilege to be here. Let’s start with a word of prayer. Dear Father, indeed, Your Word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path. And once more, this evening, we ask for Your Holy Spirit to be with us as we open the Bible and give us understanding. And we pray that You be with our listeners and those that call in. For this we ask, in Jesus’ name. Amen.
Pastor Doug: Amen!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, this evening, you opened up by talking about lasers as the amazing fact—fascinating stuff. And you also spoke about how lasers can be used to cool things down or heat things up—kind of bringing about a state of lukewarmness in some cases. And the Bible has something to say about being lukewarm as a Christian…
Pastor Doug: Yup.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …in Revelation chapter 3.
Pastor Doug: That’s right. Revelation 3:14, this is the last of the messages to the seven churches in Revelation. And it says, “Unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans, write these things sayeth the ‘Amen,’ the ‘Faithful’ and the ‘True Witness,’ the beginning of the creation of God: I know your works that you are neither cold nor hot. I would you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold or hot, I will spew thee out of My mouth.” Now, in Bible times, if you found running water that was cold, it was generally safe to drink. Or if you boiled water as today, it was usually safe to drink. But lukewarm, tepid water bred disease.
And some people think that being hot or cold means being saved or lost. Jesus would never say, “I would that you were lost.” But being “cold” means in an attitude of repentance. Being “hot” means filled with zeal and enthusiasm. But the indifference that is so typical among many professed Christians is nauseating to the Lord. And it is the most dangerous condition because the Lord can work with us when we’re on our knees in a state of, you might say, “cold repentance” humbling ourselves.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright.
Pastor Doug: He can work with us when we’re filled with zeal and enthusiasm—on fire. But it’s when we’re just going around not knowing that we’re poor and wretched, miserable, blind, and naked. We think everything’s fine and we are void of the Spirit’s gifts—that’s when we’re in the greatest danger of committing the unpardonable sin. And many people hear that phrase and it makes them shudder to think, “You mean there’s a sin for which there is no forgiveness?” The Bible is clear. Jesus said that there is. And maybe our friends would like to know, “How do we know and how do we avoid making this very dangerous, lethal mistake of committing the unpardonable sin?” And if you’d like to understand how you can be hot or cold but avoid being lukewarm, we have a special offer.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We sure do. Again, it’s about the unpardonable sin that comes as a result of this point of lukewarmness. It’s a free booklet that we’d like to give you. It’s by Joe Crews. It’s called, “The Point of No Return.” And it deals with the question of the unpardonable sin. We’d like to give that to you, free. All you need to do is call our resource number. The number is 1-800-835-6747 and ask for “The Point of No Return.” It’s an excellent little booklet that deals with that.
Pastor Doug: Amen.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, Pastor Doug, we have some Internet questions this evening and so we’ll go right to it. And by the way, we still do have some phone lines open. So if you’d like to call in your Bible-related question, this would be a good time to do it. The first question that we have here—the Internet question—is, “I’m a bit confused when Jesus said to the thief on the cross, ‘Today, you will be with Me in Paradise.’ Did that mean that the thief would go with Jesus to heaven that day?” And then a follow up part of this same question, “Could you also explain how Moses and Elijah were present with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration?”
Pastor Doug: Okay, well, big question. I can start with the second part. It’s not that difficult to understand how Moses and Elijah can be with Jesus. The Bible tells us Elijah went to heaven in a fiery chariot and that’s in 2 Kings chapter 2. And then, if you read in the book of Jude, it tells us that Michael came to resurrect Moses. And Jewish tradition—not the Bible but Jewish tradition—tells us, three days after Moses died that God raised him and therefore, there’s no grave for Moses anywhere in the world. And so, we know how they got there.
As far as the thief on the cross, we don’t believe that he died and went to heaven with Jesus that same day. That is one of the cases and it’s only found in the gospel of Luke where the punctuation that translators… Bible’s, I believe, perfect. But translations are done by men and there is no punctuation in the Greek.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.
Pastor Doug: King James’ translators wanted to know, “Where do we put the comma in this sentence?” And they say, “Verily, I say unto you (comma), today you’ll be with Me in Paradise.” Well, the only problem is Jesus did not go to Paradise that day because when Mary went to worship Him, John chapter 21, Sunday morning, He says, “Don’t cling to Me. Don’t touch Me. I’ve not yet ascended to My Father.” So the thief couldn’t be with Christ that day if Jesus hadn’t gone Himself.
It’s simply should be… the comma should be moved over, “Verily I say unto you today (comma), you will be with Me in Paradise—I’m telling you today, even though I don’t look like a King, I don’t look like a Lord, you’ll be with Me.” And that solves everything when it’s correctly translated. And I think there are actually some translations that have that correction in them.
Pastor Jëan Ross: There are some of the other ones. You know, that same point, the thief didn’t expect to go to heaven that day anyway in the question that he asked Jesus. He said, “Lord, remember me when You establish Your kingdom,” or “You come in Your glory.”
Pastor Doug: Exactly. Good point.
Pastor Jëan Ross: He’s had in mind the future event, not then and there—that very day.
Pastor Doug: That’s right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: So understanding the converse is important. We do have another Internet question. This one has to do with the question of those who are saved and those who are lost that goes, “If God knows who’s saved and who won’t be saved, why does He continue to seek the hearts of those that He already knows will not accept the plan of salvation?”
Pastor Doug: Well, does a parent care for her child? It’s terminal. You know, God is loving and He does everything He can even though He may know what the prognosis is. You see, just because God knows doesn’t mean He stops seeking or yearning for the lost. And another reason that God does everything He can to provide every opportunity is so that, you know, no one can stand before God in the judgment and say, “Well, You gave up on me and that’s why I’m lost.” He’ll demonstrate, “I never gave up.”
Even though God can see the future, and this is actually something that must pain the Lord, He knows what’s going to happen. That does not mean He’s always manipulating things to make them happen.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.
Pastor Doug: Someone in the helicopter might be able to predict an accident by virtue of their perspective. But they’re not making the accident happen. And it’s a delicate balance between God’s helping us live in the present and providing every opportunity and yet He has knowledge of the future. And, you know, He’s got infinite knowledge of all things.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We have the example of Saul in the Bible who became king of Israel and we know the end—how he rejected God’s Holy Spirit—he committed the sin of the unpardonable…
Pastor Doug: The unpardonable sin.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …the unpardonable… yes.
Pastor Doug: Right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The sin against the Holy Spirit. But yet, God still called him and ordained him to be king.
Pastor Doug: Yup, and he was…
Pastor Jëan Ross: He was given everything…
Pastor Doug: …given every opportunity but Saul chose to rebel.
Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right. Well, let’s go to our… the lines here. We have Brenda who is calling us from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Welcome to the program, Brenda! Your question please.
Brenda: My question is, if you can answer, the difference between the Holy Spirit which is the Comforter where Jesus said there, “I will not leave you comfortless. I will leave you with the Comforter.” And then a verse says the spiritual gifts—some people think that the spiritual gift which is the gift of tongues is the Holy Spirit force us to speak in an unknown tongues. Is that the spiritual gift that He gives to certain individuals?
Pastor Doug: Well, there are… good question, Brenda. There are many different functions of the Holy Spirit. A matter of fact, when you read in Revelation, it talks about the seven Spirits. It’s the Holy Spirit is one but it seems to show seven facets of God’s Spirit and you can find those seven facets of God’s Spirit in Isaiah 11:2. But when it talks about the gifts of the Spirit, it is a common mistake that when people are baptized or when they’re converted that God gives them all the gifts of the Spirit. The very opposite is true—God gives different gifts to different people. And you can read in 1 Corinthians 12:1, “Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you be ignorant.”
Well, let me see here; verse 4, “Now there are diversities of gifts but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations but it’s the same God that works all in all. For the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit with all. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom. To another, the word of knowledge by the same Spirit. To another, by the same Spirit, faith. To another, gifts of healing by the same Spirit. To another, workings of miracles. To another, prophecy. To another, discerning of spirits. To another, diverse kinds of tongues. To another, the interpretation of tongues.” So, in other words, he says, “To another, to another, to another…” they’re all given different gifts of the Spirit, Brenda.
Brenda: Yeah, I know that…
Pastor Doug: And that is… all of them get the Spirit as a Comforter. But the gifts of the Spirit are distributed differently. Some are given the gifts of preachings and teachings, some maybe the gift of evangelism, some the gift of healing, some the gift of faith, and by the way, here in 1 Corinthians 12, this is not the exhaustive list. There are other lists that add more to it in the Bible. There are many gifts of the Spirit. It doesn’t mention music here—that’s a gift.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Now, of course, there’s a distinction between the gifts of the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit.
Brenda: Right.
Pastor Doug: Right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The fruit of the Spirit, everybody can have.
Pastor Doug: And everyone should have.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Should have.
Pastor Doug: That’s in Galatians 5…
Pastor Jëan Ross: 5:22.
Pastor Doug: Go ahead and read that.
Pastor Jëan Ross: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, or self-control. Against such, there is no law.”
Pastor Doug: Right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: So every Christian should be manifesting the fruit of the Spirit but not every Christian will necessarily have the same gift of the Spirit.
Pastor Doug: Exactly.
Brenda: Right. I know about the gift but what about the Comforter that He said He would leave with us which is the Holy Spirit?
Pastor Doug: Well, that’s the Person of the Holy Spirit who, God promises to give to everybody. Jesus is very clear in John chapter 14. He says, “If you love Me, keep My commandments and I will pray the Father and He will send you another Comforter.” And that’s to everybody who submits and surrenders.
Brenda: How do you know that you’ve received it?
Pastor Doug: If you have… well, Jesus said, “You’ll know them by their fruits.” If a person has the fruits of the Spirit, that’s evidence that the Holy Spirit is in their lives.
Brenda: By having the fruits of the Spirit?
Pastor Doug: Exactly. You’ll know them, Jesus said, by their fruits. If someone says, “I’ve got the Holy Spirit,” and they’re filled with hate, well, then they don’t have the Holy Spirit.
Brenda: Right.
Pastor Doug: Because it’s the first thing is love.
Brenda: So you’re saying we can’t have the same thing that happened on the day of Pentecost when they were still with the Holy Spirit and they began to speak in unknown tongues?
Pastor Doug: Well, I believe we’re going to see when God pours out His Spirit in latter rain power, I believe we’re going to see the gifts of the Spirit intensify again. Tongues is…
Brenda: Oh, but we can’t have it now?
Pastor Doug: No, we can. I just said it’ll intensify. Tongues is simply one of the gifts of the Spirit. It’s, you know, it’s not the main gift.
Brenda: Yes. But the gifts of the Spirit…
Pastor Doug: And whenever the gifts of…
Brenda: as far as tongues are concerned, those are individuals that know how to speak an unknown language… doesn’t know how to speak the unknown languages. And the Bible go across the current reason where the Ethiopia or somewhere, I wouldn’t know how to speak their language and I wouldn’t understand their language.
Pastor Doug: Exactly right. You know what, Brenda? I have actually written a book because there’s so many questions on this that I’ll send you for free and it’s called, “Captured by Tongues.” And if you’d like a free copy of that book, it’s the book on the gift of tongues and how it relates to the Holy Spirit. Call the resource number Pastor Jëan is going to give you and we’ll send that to you.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Again, Brenda, the book is, “Captured by Tongues.” And the resource number is 1-800-835-6747. That’s 800-835-6747. Thank you for calling, Brenda. Let’s go to our next caller then. Michael is calling us from Avon Park, Florida. Welcome to the program, Michael! Your question please.
Michael: Hi! Good evening, guys. I had a question concerning Revelations 12 and I think that the woman is the church, right?
Pastor Doug: The woman in Revelation 12 most scholars believe is a symbol for the church—the true church—God’s bride.
Michael: Okay. Well, my question is I don’t understand if she’s a church, how could she give birth to Jesus? Because I think Jesus is the one she gives birth to, right?
Pastor Doug: That’s correct! Well, you’ve got two aspects of the church. In the Old Testament, God still had a church. Hebrews talks about the church in the wilderness. The word “church” means “gathering” or “God’s people.” And in Revelation, it begins by portraying God’s church as it transitions to the New Testament time. You remember when Jesus was born that the Roman power were sent with their soldiers to kill all the babies in Bethlehem to destroy Him when He was a child. Revelation 12 says that the dragon tried to devour the child as soon as He was born. And I mean, you can even see in ancient Egypt when Moses was born, the Pharaoh was killing all the baby boys. The devil was trying to keep the Messiah from coming.
So part of the work of the church was to deliver the Messiah to the world and the woman does that there in Revelation 12. She is giving the Messiah to the world. Jesus came through the Hebrew people, right?
Michael: Right.
Pastor Doug: And so, they presented Him. They have Pentecost, all the preachers were Jews. They presented the Messiah to the world. And then the church transitions where she now runs in the wilderness and she goes through great persecution which is what happened during the Dark Ages and many other times.
Michael: Yeah.
Pastor Doug: So Revelation 12 is sort of giving a panorama of the history of God’s bride.
Michael: Okay. Thank you…
Pastor Doug: And one thing is notice… just real quick. She’s standing on the moon—that’s the Old Testament; she’s clothed with the sun—that’s the New Testament; 12 stars above her head—that’s the 12 tribes in the Old Testament while the apostles in the New Testament; and two identifying characteristics are she keeps the commandments of God and has the testimony of Jesus—the Law and the Prophets.
Michael: Right.
Pastor Doug: You know, we have a free lesson on this that covers that whole chapter. Would you like me to send it to you? It’s free.
Michael: I guess. Okay.
Pastor Doug: Yeah. And money-back guarantee—if you don’t like it, you get to keep it.
Pastor Jëan Ross: [Laughing]
Michael: [Laughing]
Pastor Doug: It’s simply called “The Bride of Christ.” “The Bride of Christ,” if you’d like a copy of that, then call the number.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Michael, the resource number for that, again, it’s “The Bride of Christ,” is 1-800-835-6747. Thank you again for calling, Michael. Let’s go to our next caller. Bruce is listening in Hidden Valley, he’s on the line. And Bruce, welcome to the program—Hidden Valley, California.
Bruce: Thank you very much and it’s nice to talk to you, Jëan and Doug. And I… God bless you both! You know, I have a question about the similarities on the repeats of things that happened in Genesis 2:9 and then again in Revelations22:1-2.
Pastor Doug: Yeah.
Bruce: The representations of the water flowing from a rock in Genesis 17:5-6; the manna that came down from heaven in Exodus, the third and 16th chapter. And then the tree of life and the river of life that is given back to us in Revelations, is God Himself, I mean, the manna? You know, the tree of life that the healing in the leaves is a representation in my heart and in my mind is Christ and what He did in His ministry as a Man in this world. And then on the tree where He became the fruit that died for us all and that was payment for our sin with His blood—His perfect blood. Is God evidencing Himself not only the fire in the bush and the manna and the Spirit in the cloud that led them through the wilderness, but is this God turning Himself into things like this that we can represent in this world and…
Pastor Doug: Well, it is a strong allegory and you’re not the first one to see that. You know, Solomon said there’s nothing new under the sun. This week I thought I had a new revelation reading the Bible that… and then I went online and found out that people have been talking about it for years. But, you know, Christ is compared to both the tree… you know, when Moses throws a tree in the water in the wilderness and it made the waters drinkable; and Jesus is a symbol of the tree of life because everything that is good in the Bible seems to go through Christ on its way to us. And so, there are a lot of allegories there in that Jesus is both the fruit of life, the leaves of healing, the tree… He died on a tree. You know what I’m saying?
Bruce: Oh, yeah. Perfectly, and does He need that tree in a resurrected world or body still being God? Does He need the tree to live forever now? [inaudible 00:22:40] like in Adam?
Pastor Doug: No. He probably, you know, He’s going to sit down and sup with us but it won’t be because He needs to. I mean, even when Jesus rose from the dead, He ate with the disciples, but I don’t think He was going to faint if they didn’t feed Him. It was just… He was showing that He was real. Even though He had a glorified body, He said, “You can see that I’m not a phantom that I am a real Person. I am the same Jesus. I was resurrected. I’m not a ghost.”
Bruce: And the manna is the bread of the angels so they apparently eat these bread themselves? And in the wilderness, didn’t the manna keep the people from aging and their clothes from wearing out? A supernatural thing happened just like the tree will do for man.
Pastor Doug: Well, you know, I don’t know that I’d go that far with the manna that God gave them from heaven. It does talk about it being angels’ food but I don’t know that… I think that God is speaking there in a metaphor also. I don’t know that that means that angels eat manna up in heaven.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And of course, the children of Israel in the wilderness did age because we know that they died in the wilderness…
Pastor Doug: Yeah.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …except for those few who…
Pastor Doug: Their clothes were preserved.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Clothes and shoes were preserved.
Pastor Doug: I think that God sometimes will prolong things. You remember when Elijah ate the food that came from an angel and drank the water, he went 40 days from that one meal. But…
Bruce: Oh, sure. And Moses did die and Elijah lived in the Promised Land and did not die. I’m just saying there’s such a separation between Elijah and Moses in their own consequence of the remainder of their life.
Pastor Doug: Yeah. Yup. Well, those who…
Bruce: I can talk about this in heaven with you, guys [laughing].
Pastor Doug: Yeah, that’s a good idea [laughing]. Well, I appreciate that, Bruce, and good thoughts and obviously, you’re studying. We have time for one more? I think we do, Pastor Jëan, before our break.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure. Let’s quickly go to Thomas who is listening in California at KTIE radio, Thomas, welcome to the program! Your question please.
Thomas: Yes, good evening, Doug. How are you?
Pastor Doug: Evening!
Thomas: I just want to say I have a quick question. We noticed that the Old Testament prophets have been prophesying that the years have fallen and yet, they have been—I guess, God has given them the strength to bounce back. But in the book of Daniel, I believe it’s chapter 8, is it possible that Daniel could have prophesied Hitler’s, you know, rise to power and how he was, you know, killing the Jews? Could that be a possible prophecy that had occur here?
Pastor Doug: Well, I think Daniel chapter 8 is more specifically dealing with… let me—to understand this, I got to back up and give you an overview.
Thomas: Okay.
Pastor Doug: The prophecies that are given in Revelation and Daniel have a lot of similarity in that they cover roughly the same history with each vision giving more detail. Jesus gives, in the seven churches of Revelation, an overview of the history of His church. And then the seven seals gives a political history; the seven trumpets in military history. In Daniel chapter 2, you’ve got sort of the history until the Second Coming in this mental image. Daniel chapter 7, it’s this four beasts—lion, bear, leopard—and then, in Daniel chapter 8, which is what you’re asking about, is given in the context of the goat and the ram.
Thomas: Yeah.
Pastor Doug: It’s principally covering the war against God’s people and I guess you could put what happened with Hitler would fit in one of those timelines but I don’t see a specific reference to it. Now, there are places—other places in the Bible—you asked me about Daniel chapter 8.
Thomas: Yeah.
Pastor Doug: I think there are some other places in the Bible that do touch on the persecution of the Jewish people. But, I don’t think we can cover that in three minutes…
Thomas: Yeah.
Pastor Doug: …which is what we try to budget for each call.
Thomas: Right. That’s good. Okay, well, I appreciate the information and may God continue to bless you.
Pastor Doug: Well, thank you. And if you go online, we’ve actually got a Bible study that deals more with Daniel chapter 8 and it’s called, “God Drew the Plans.” If you go to our… you can read it online or you can, you know, we’ll send it to you if you call the resource number, okay?
Thomas: Okay, will do that.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, Thomas, let me give you that resource number again. It’s 1-800-835-6747 and the study guide is “God Drew the Plans.” It deals with the prophecy of Daniel chapter 8. Well, Pastor Doug, do we have time for another question?
Pastor Doug: Let’s see how far we get. Let’s try it.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure. We’ve got one. We’ve got Joel listening here in Tennessee. Welcome to the program, Joel. You’re going to have to give us your question quickly.
Joel: Hi, good evening, Doug and Jëan. I just want to say your ministry’s really a blessing. Revelation 12 and verse 7 says that, “And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and the dragon fought and his angels.” I was wondering if this was the physical battle or like the spiritual battle—their arrows go across, you know, the waters of heaven and across the trees and all that…
Pastor Doug: Good question. Well, it was a real battle. Was it a physical battle like we fight? Probably not because you read in Ephesians 6, “We do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers, against the rulers of darkness, against this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” In Ephesians, Paul doesn’t deny that there are battles with evil. He said it’s not… we don’t use—“the weapons of our warfare are not carnal.” And so, there was some kind of conflict in heaven and I don’t know, Joel, what exactly the weapons were but it was a very real cosmic conflict, if you will. And just not like… they’re probably weren’t using M1 rifles and hand grenades.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The devil didn’t leave willingly.
Pastor Doug: Yeah, I know. There was some resistance. And you can also find this in Daniel chapter 10. It talks about the battle between—he said, “Prince of Persia prevailed…” Michael prevailed against him.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.
Pastor Doug: Friends, we’re going to take a break. We have some important announcements and you’ll still hear Pastor Dick’s voice giving these important announcements. Don’t forget, you can check out other resources we have available right now at the website. It’s simply amazingfacts.org—a free library with a kaleidoscope of resources there. We’ll be right back.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
Pastor Dick: Welcome back to Bible Answers Live with Doug Batchelor! Because this is a pre-recorded broadcast of our Sunday night program, call from 7 to 8 P.M. Pacific Time on Sundays with your Bible-related questions. Receive clear, practical answers from the Bible about prophecy, doctrine, biblical principles. Call 800-GOD-SAYS; 800-463-7297. Now, join us as we open our Bibles for more Bible answers live with author and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor!
Pastor Doug: Welcome back, listening friends! This is Bible Answers Live and if you are just joining us, this is a live, international, interactive Bible study program you can participate in, you can listen—hopefully learn—you can pray for us as we do our best to find the answers in the word of God or you can call in with your Bible question. It’s a toll-free number and we give you an acronym to make it easy—it’s 800-GOD-SAYS—because we want to find out from the word of God. That’s 800-GOD-SAYS or 800-463-7297 and you try to call right away and don’t get through, try again. And my name is Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Jëan Ross: My name is Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug, let’s go to the phone line. McKenzie is listening from Canada on CSMQ. Welcome to the program, McKenzie. Your question, please.
McKenzie: My question is in Acts 7:2.
Pastor Doug: Okay.
McKenzie: Stephen referred to the church leaders as the “fathers…”
Pastor Doug: Yeah.
McKenzie: I thought you were not supposed to call any religious leader “father.”
Pastor Doug: Well, that’s true. Calling a body “fathers” is actually different than calling a religious guru “Father.” When he was addressing the leaders, you know, the Bible says, “Honor your father and mother…”
McKenzie: Yes?
Pastor Doug: That’s also respecting your elders and it was very common in the time of Christ to call the elders “fathers.” They used to call the women “mothers” in Israel. And the ancient men were called “fathers.” Jesus, when He said, “Call no man,” notice that singular, “Father.” They also had gurus or… I’m using an Indian term, but they had these great teachers that claim to be, you know, the all-knowing leader of the people and they call them “father,” “the father.” And Jesus is saying, “Your spiritual leader should be God.”
Now, it’s okay to call your daddy “father.” Would you agree?
McKenzie: Yeah.
Pastor Doug: And Jesus is not making a command that you can’t call your father, “father.”
McKenzie: Yeah.
Pastor Doug: So, Stephen is simply using a term of respect like we would say “gentlemen.” And they would address their senior gentlemen as “fathers.” It was a term of respect. It wasn’t what Christ was talking about.
McKenzie: Okay.
Pastor Doug: That’s a good question.
McKenzie: I could see why you’d ask it.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for calling, McKenzie. We appreciate it. Let’s go to the next caller. Darren is listening on the Internet. Welcome to the program, Darren. Your question, please.
Darren: Hello?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi!
Darren: Hello. How you doing tonight?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Good!
Pastor Doug: You’re on the air and your question.
Darren: Question is in Mark chapter 14, I think verse 52 when Jesus was arrested and the naked boy that was with him that was in a linen…
Pastor Doug: Yes?
Darren: I was understanding that that wasn’t Jesus… I just want to know if this… your understanding. When Jesus… when they came to arrest Him and asked who He was and He said, “I Am,” and everyone fell out.
Pastor Doug: Right.
Darren: Is that… was the boy someone who was resurrected at that time? Because he just popped up—he was naked…
Pastor Doug: He seems to come out of nowhere…
Darren: …and then he took off his clothes and… I mean, was he someone that was resurrected from the power of what He said—what the Lord said?
Pastor Doug: No, the problem is that the resurrection does not happen until after Jesus dies on the cross and in Mark… I’m sorry, Matthew 28, it’s after Christ says, “It’s finished!” there’s an earthquake and a resurrection; it’s believed by most commentators… we’re hearing music. Maybe your cellphone or something on.
Darren: Yes sir.
Pastor Doug: I’m used to that during church [laughing]…
Pastor Jëan Ross: [Laughing]
Darren: [Laughing]
Pastor Doug: …when I’m preaching. It is probably, most commentators believe that this actually was Mark—John Mark may have trailed the disciples when they went to the Garden of Gethsemane with Jesus and he was there sleeping in the Garden with them. And he tried to follow afterward and find out what was happening to Christ and the guards, you know, seized Him. He didn’t have the time to get dressed because they used to take off their clothes when they slept at night to let them air out and they have sort of a bed sheet they wrap around themselves. And when the arrest happen so suddenly, remember, they were all sleeping when the mob came, he jumped up, wrapped his sheet around him and began to find out where they’re taking him and they grabbed the sheet and he fled naked.
Now, there’s a spiritual analogy there. If you’re following Jesus and you flee from Jesus, you flee naked. And the only way to stay clothed is to follow Christ. You know, clothing, of course, represents His righteousness. Did that make sense? I think, you know, he’s losing on the Internet. I think we lost our connection. Anyway, hey, thanks for your question. I think we got the answer in there.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. Thank you. Let’s go to the next caller. Grace is listening from Carmichael, California. Welcome to the program, Grace! Your question, please.
Grace: In the Bible—I don’t know what verse—but doesn’t it say that Jesus could’ve called on ten thousand angels. Why didn’t He call on the ten thousand angels when the soldiers came?
Pastor Doug: Well, because… yes, Jesus does say that. He tells us that when Peter pulled out his sword to fight and defend Jesus, He said, “Don’t you know that I could ask My Father now and He would send legions of angels to deliver Me?” The reason He didn’t do it is because Christ never used His supernatural power that is not available to us to save Himself. He also, if He had been saved from the cross, where would you and I be, Grace, if He had saved Himself? Then there’d be no hope. He decided to go through that out of love for us. You know what I’m saying?
Grace: Uh-huh. Thank you.
Pastor Doug: Alright. Good question. Thank you.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Let’s go to our next caller. David is listening from The Bronx, New York on WMCA. Hi, David, welcome to the program! Your question, please.
Pastor Doug: Hi! How can we help you?
David: Yeah. My question is, I just want to know about the Bible. Is only the 144,000 people going to live in the New Jerusalem or all the saints who are going to live over there?
Pastor Doug: Alright. Good question. And you need to get a little close to your phone because we can barely hear you but I did hear the question. Is it only going to be the 144,000 that will live in the New Jerusalem or are there others? If you look in Revelation chapter 7 where you find the first reference to the 144,000, after identifying them, then—John is in vision talking to these elders—it says in verse 9, “After this, I beheld and lo, a great multitude that no man can number.” Obviously, it’s much more than a 144,000. From all nations and kindreds, and peoples, and tongues. And these are the ones that are saved out of great tribulation and they will also be in the City of God.
So if you think about it, if there are six billion people in the world today, and that doesn’t count all those who have lived from the time of Christ until now, if only a 144,000 are going to be saved, then our odds are a million to one. You know, we might as well throw our hands in the air and just play the lottery! But I think that the 144,000 are type of the apostles in the last days. The apostles were not the only ones Jesus saved. He saved them to train to reach others. The 144,000 are like the last day apostles that have a special work to do.
Now, David, I’ve got a book I’ve written on that, and if you’d like I’ll send you a free copy. It’s not a big book. It’s easy reading and it’s called “Who Will Sing the Song? Who are the 144,000?” You just call and ask for Doug’s book on the 144,000. Tell them you’re listening to the radio program and we’ll send it to you, for free!
David: Okay.
Pastor Doug: David, let me give you the resource number again. It’s 1-800-835-6747 and ask for Pastor Doug’s book on the 144,000. Our next caller is calling from Greenville, North Carolina. Leonora is on the phone listening on the Internet. Welcome to the program, Leonora! Your question, please.
Leonora: Thank you so much! My question deals with when Stephen was stoned and he looked up into the heavens and he saw Jesus. I understand that when we die, that we go to sleep, and we don’t go to heaven until after Jesus comes to rapture the church or the people thought. And I heard people say that they were in the presence of people dying and people say, well, you know, they’d see the Lord coming for them.
Pastor Doug: Yes.
Leonora: I just want to know what’s your take on that.
Pastor Doug: Well, and you’re talking also about Stephen who, before he was… before he died he said, “I see the heavens open. I see Jesus standing…”
Leonora: Right.
Pastor Doug: He had a vision of Christ before he died.
Leonora: Right.
Pastor Doug: And of course, that vision was there to encourage him in his steadfastness because he was standing alone just as Christ did and you know…
Leonora: Right.
Pastor Doug: …the Lord draws very near those who take a stand for the Lord. When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego went to the fiery furnace, God drew near to them and He went to the furnace with them. When Daniel went to the lions’ den because he was standing up against the king, God sent His angels to the lions’ den with him. And Stephen was with… I’m sorry; Jesus was with Stephen when he went through his trial of martyrdom. Now, the question you’re asking is, are they going to have some special resurrection or go right to heaven? Let me tell you where… sorry, go ahead.
Leonora: You know, do they… does Jesus—I mean, because you hear people say Jesus comes for them. I mean, so what does that…
Pastor Doug: Well, He does but let me tell you where I think the problem comes in, Leonora. The Bible tells us, “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” Now, if you’re saved and you die—and the Bible’s very clear—the resurrection happens at the Second Coming. 20 years might go by before the Second Coming but it doesn’t seem like 20 years for those who have died. Their next conscious thought is a moment—the twinkling of an eye—and they go there with Jesus. He catches them up. It’s His Second Coming!
So, as far as they’re concerned, because they don’t live in a dimension of time anymore, it’s instant for them. But as far as us who live in this world where time is going on, has it happened yet? No, of course, not! We’re still here and the graves are still full. You know what I’m saying? And that confuses people.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Right. And the vision of Stephen seeing Jesus took place before he died.
Pastor Doug: Exactly!
Pastor Jëan Ross: A matter of fact, that was taking place in the temple before they even started…
Pastor Doug: Or in the judgment hall.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …in the judgment hall…
Pastor Doug: Right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …before they took him outside the city to…
Pastor Doug: That’s right!
Pastor Jëan Ross: …stone him.
Pastor Doug: I hope… does that help a little bit, Leonora?
Leonora: Yes, I guess so but I just… you know, some people say the Lord’s coming for them.
Pastor Doug: Well, some folks may have that vision. I know Dwight Moody and other great preachers on their deathbeds, they had visions and I don’t doubt the reality of those visions. Does that mean that they’re in heaven now? No because Jesus said we’re going to heaven together…
Pastor Jëan Ross: Right.
Pastor Doug: …when He comes at the end of the… I’m sorry. When the Lord…
Pastor Jëan Ross: Second Coming…
Pastor Doug: …when the Second Coming takes place. Yeah.
Leonora: I understand.
Pastor Doug: Alright? And you know, we’ve got a lesson—a study guide—that we’ll send you on this and it’s called, “Are the Dead Really Dead?” and it goes into detail about what the Bible says about the sequence of “when you die, what’s the next experience?” “When is the resurrection? When is the judgment?” And we’ll send you a free copy of that, “Are the Dead Really Dead?”
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call for that is 1-800-835-6747 and the study guide is “Are the Dead Really Dead?”
Pastor Doug: Right. We’ll just put you on hold and you can… or you can call in rather and get that.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Call in and you can get that from them. Our next caller is from Alaska. Robert is listening on the Internet. Welcome to the program, Robert! Your question, please.
Robert: Good evening! My question… okay.
Pastor Doug: Well, I got a question for you.
Robert: Okay?
Pastor Doug: What’s the temperature up there right now?
Robert: It’s about 10 below right now [laughing].
Pastor Doug: Oh, you’re having a heat wave.
Robert: Oh, yeah! It actually got down to 24 below last week.
Pastor Doug: I was wondering.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Oh wow!
Pastor Doug: Okay. Now, your question.
Robert: Okay. I understand that Satan uses… paganism and stuff like that to deceive man to be lost but what I don’t understand is how do you expect to win the rest of the universe to his side… your…
Pastor Doug: You know, you’re cutting out a little bit, Robert. You may be on a cellphone. How does he expect to win the rest of the universe using what?
Robert: …deception against man like… okay, when he attacked Job or uses paganism to lead men away from Him, how does the universe see that he’s using deception? How does he expect to win this war using those methods?
Pastor Doug: Well, yeah, obviously the heavenly agencies know that Satan is lost; he’s never going to regain access to heaven. You wonder if he does expect to win. He is sort of dealing with a desperate insanity. People who are terminally proud, you can’t convince them no matter how much evidence you’ve got that they’re wrong. Their pride will not allow them to. And Satan is something like a defeated soldier who’s going down and he wants to take as many with him as he can. So it’s this crazed desperation that he’s operating under. He’s so filled with venom and hate for Jesus. He wants to hurt the object of Jesus’ love and he wants to deceive as many as he can. It’s like, you know, sometimes his candidates will, to the very… I mean, the polls are showing they’re going to lose but they say, “No, we’re going to turn this thing around!” And the devil is, you know, he’s sort of like a pathetic candidate who just won’t admit defeat.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Like someone who’s wanting to commit suicide but before they do, they go shoot up a whole lot of innocent people in the school or something like that…
Pastor Doug: Yeah. Some people do it with their families and then they kill themselves.
Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right. That’s what some will do.
Pastor Doug: I hope that helps a little, Robert.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Robert, again, thanks for calling. Let’s go to our next caller. Ian is holding on the line. He’s calling from Atlanta, Georgia. Welcome to the program, Ian!
Ian: Hey, how you doing?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Good. Your question, please.
Ian: Yes. About the Scripture where it says… that talks about the rich man and Lazarus about the chasm.
Pastor Doug: The Great Gulf fixed, yes.
Ian: And you said the reason he was trying to tell his friends about hell or some kind of saying teachers trying to go back and tell his friends about hell and everything and then Jesus said, “Well, that’s what pastors and teachers are for.” And are there… in hell, do they have any five senses so they can still feel what’s going on and still remember?
Pastor Doug: Well, you’re talking about a parable that’s found in Luke 16:19. It’s called “The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus” and before I forget, when we get off this question, call. We have a book called, “The Rich Man and Lazarus.” We’ll send you for free, okay?
Ian: Okay.
Pastor Doug: Please call the number when I’m done but I’ll give you a quick answer. This is a parable and it’s, you know, it’s in a series of parables that Jesus gives. And in this parable, you got to be careful not to take it too literally because for one thing, it says that the poor man dies and he goes to Abraham’s bosom. Well, if everybody who has ever died goes to Abraham’s bosom, Abraham has one enormous bosom.
Pastor Jëan Ross: [Laughing]
Pastor Doug: Or just like a bus terminal, or something [laughing] but… so it’s obviously figurative. And, again, when the man is in torment, he says to Lazarus, “Send,” you know, “Come and bring a drop of water for my tongue.” Well, one drop of water is not really going to cool a person who is burning in Hades. So, I wouldn’t take this symbolism here too literally. In this parable, Jesus is describing the church and the lost or the Jewish nation and the Gentiles—you can apply it either way.
Many people in the church, they’ve got the truth and they feast on the truth and the lost world is around them and they don’t care. All they do is argue among themselves and feast; they listen to sermons. And the Jewish nation, same thing, they had their temple. They said that, “You know, all the Gentiles are out there. We’re the chosen people and they’re lost.” And so, that’s the real message of the parable and people try to take this parable and try and say it’s describing what’s happening in hell.
Now, you ask, “Do we feel anything in hell?” Yes. Hell… the Lake of Fire is very real and Revelation says, “The wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire and everyone is punished according to what they deserve.” But do they have five senses? Probably! They have all their senses that they have when they got a resurrected body.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, one other thing about this parable that’s interesting is that there was a person by the name of Lazarus that was resurrected.
Pastor Doug: That’s right!
Pastor Jëan Ross: And even though Christ resurrected Lazarus, still, the religious leaders wouldn’t believe.
Pastor Doug: Yeah. That’s right!
Pastor Jëan Ross: And the point of the parable that Jesus makes at the end, “If they hear not Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.”
Pastor Doug: That’s right, good point!
Pastor Jëan Ross: So we’ve got God’s word and if we won’t believe God’s word, what more can God do?
Pastor Doug: Absolutely. Does that help a little bit, Ian?
Ian: Yes sir!
Pastor Doug: Alright. And by the way, we have two things I’ve mentioned. One, we’ve got a book called, “The Rich Man and Lazarus.” You ask for that, we’ll send you. But we’re going to double your order for the same price. We also have a study guide called, “Is the Devil In charge of Hell?” A lot of people got these pictures that the devil’s down there and he’s the superintendent. “Is the Devil In charge of Hell?” and we’ll send you a free copy of that if you ask for it, too—all free!
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number, Ian, is 1-800-835-6747. Thanks again for calling. Let’s go to our next caller. Jonathan is calling from Concord, California. He’s listening on KFIA. Welcome to the program, Jonathan. Your question please.
Jonathan: Yeah. Hi! You guys had talked earlier about the unforgivable sin…
Pastor Doug: Yes.
Jonathan: …and I wondered, how would a person know if they’d cross that line? I had a…
Pastor Doug: Well… go ahead.
Jonathan: I had a prodigal experience when I was younger. From about 20 to 23, I sort of left my faith and you know, did a lot of things. And I repented and came back since then. But I’ve always wondered, you know, how would you know if you’d gone too far?
Pastor Doug: Okay. Well, one thing is a person who has committed the unpardonable sin, they usually have a callous conscience so that it sort of lose your capacity to really repent. When Peter sinned against Jesus, he went out and wept bitterly; it broke his hear. And he was a changed man. Judas went out and hung himself. He just lost all hope. And Saul, when he committed the unpardonable sin, he also fell on his sword. So one of the characteristics is the devil sort of takes possession of the person that they have no hope or they have no conscience. They don’t seem to care about sin and they have no desire to reform or repent.
So when a person gets to that place and they’re lukewarm—lukewarm means that they’re not capable of repentance—that’s a very dangerous state to be in.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The Bible says it’s the goodness of the Lord that leads us to repentance. So, if we reject the Holy Spirit, we have no desire to repent.
Pastor Doug: Right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: That means trouble.
Pastor Doug: Would you like… we mentioned a free book that we’re sending to anyone that wants it, Jonathan. And that book, “The Point of No Return,” it answers this question with a lot of scriptural support. And one reason we offer so many books is we can only sort of give the iceberg, like the surface; we can give 10% of the answer, the book will give the other 80 or 90%.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number, again, Jonathan, is 1-800-835-6747. We have Brad on a cellphone somewhere in California on the road. Welcome to the program, Brad. Your question please.
Brad: Yes. My question is I would like to know if the church as we knew as the temple of God was destroyed when Christ was crucified at Calvary, why is there so many churches being built by mankind when we’re told that we’re all the body of Christ?
Pastor Doug: Well, I think that it’s pretty obvious that a lot of these churches that sprang up are because of divisions among Christian groups. And everybody wants to have their own unique meeting place and it’s probably difficult for the Methodists who are Armenian to meet with the Baptists who are Calvinistic in their teaching. And so, because of all the divisions in their theology—and it’s sad—I think it’s really tragic, Brad, that there are so many divisions. That’s one of the many reasons. I mean, God does want us to gather together that’s why you read in Hebrews chapter 10 that we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together especially as you see the day approaching.
Brad: Right. But my question, I guess, would be, why didn’t Christ direct us to build physical churches when at the time of the New Testament, the Spirit of God, which is the word of God, was free to all mankind to interpret directly through the Spirit to Christ Himself. Why do we man-made buildings to house us to encourage our divisions?
Pastor Doug: Well, I think one reason that Jesus didn’t specifically say, “Go and build buildings,” is because the buildings were just functional—at least they should be—some people worship the buildings and they make their monuments out of them. But the buildings were to be functional for the real object, which was the people. Now, you know, it is true, of course, that Jesus said, “Destroy this temple made with hands and in three days, I will make one without hands.” He wasn’t talking about a physical edifice. He was talking about His church—His people.
And so, sounds like, you know, you recognize that that is where the priority is to be placed. But, you know, the church buildings, they’re really for functional purpose. And I think we all know there are groups, there are denominations, and they go to a church because of the beauty of the building rather than what they teach or the principles of Christianity—and that’s unfortunate.
Hope that helps a little, Brad. And let’s see if we can get some other callers in here while we have time left.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. We’ve got Brent on a cellphone listening on WDNX. Welcome to the program, Brent. Your question please. Brent, are you there? Or is it…
Brent: Yes.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. Welcome to the program! Your question.
Brent: What was [inaudible 00:52:45]. Someone once tell me, you know, when we’re baptized, you hear it by saying, “Father, Son, Holy Ghost.” But in the Bible, it was pointed out to me that they are in fact in the book of Acts. They only baptize in the name of Jesus Christ and I was wondering if you have some… if you could explain that.
Pastor Doug: Yes. I’ve encountered that. There are some denominations that teach that your baptism isn’t really valid if you’re baptized in anything other than the name of Jesus. And when you ask him about Matthew 28 where it says, “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,” very clearly, Jesus said, “Baptize in the name of the Father, Son…” They say, “Well, that verse has been corrupted. It’s been added. It’s been modified.” Well, if you start saying that about different verses in the Bible, you can pick and choose which one you want to believe.
It is interesting, Brent, that in Acts chapter 2, it says, “Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 16… I’m sorry, Acts 8:16, it says, “Baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, it simply says, “Baptize in the name of the Lord.” So here, you got three places in Acts and it doesn’t even word it the same way. All three, just about every time. The emphasis is—and here’s the way I explain it—when two people get married… Pastor Ross, have you ever done a wedding?
Pastor Jëan Ross: I have.
Pastor Doug: I bet you’ve done more than one.
Pastor Jëan Ross: It’s more than one. Yeah [laughing].
Pastor Doug: [Laughing] Yeah. When people get married, they might come to you and say, “Pastor, when you say the vows, we’d like you to use our entire names.” And you might say… what’s your middle name?
Pastor Jëan Ross: I don’t have a middle name.
Pastor Doug: You don’t? Oh, that’s right. You’re from South Africa.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah.
Pastor Doug: Today, our kids have four names. So they might say, “George Steven Edwards Batchelor,” like one of our sons. Or they might say to you, “George, take Sally.” And the wedding is official; it doesn’t matter how many names you announce as long as you know who you’re getting married to. When people get baptized, and they’re baptized to the God of the Bible—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; Jehovah; Elohim; El Shaddai—I mean, He got so many names. If you’re going to name them all during the baptism, it’s not really practical. But some churches think that there’s some magical power in the utterance during the baptism.
You know what I do, Brent, when I baptize people? I say, “I baptize you in the name of the Father, in the name of the Son, Jesus Christ, in the name of the Holy Spirit.” So I got all bases covered.
Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right.
Pastor Doug: But, yeah. Some people, they make too big a deal out of things that are really minor. You know what I’m saying?
Brent: Okay.
Pastor Doug: Hope that helps a little.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for calling, Brent. We will take our next caller in… listening from The Dells in Oregon. It’s Lee. Welcome to the program, Lee. Your question please.
Lee: Yes. The question is about the seven last plagues. Are those literal or some literal and some spiritual?
Pastor Doug: You know, it’s interesting you would ask that. I was thinking about that tonight. I was actually doing a little study during dinner on my handheld computer and thinking about these plagues—are they literal? Are they spiritual? I think there are spiritual applications of all seven plagues but at least some of them must be real because they are similar to the seven last plagues that fell on Egypt before the Israelites were liberated. The seven... there are ten plagues that fell on Egypt. The seven plagues, they fall on the world before we are liberated—the same with the children of Israel were taken out of their slavery, we’re going to be raptured when Jesus comes at the Second Coming. Were the plagues that fell on Egypt real? Well, the blood and the frogs and the darkness was all real.
So, in Revelation where it talks of these plagues, we have a reason to think it must be real also. I hope that helps a little bit, Lee. You can tell from the music that’s starting to chase us…
Lee: Yeah.
Pastor Doug: …that we’ve run out of question time. So, yes, I believe they’re all real. There may be a spiritual one for the plague about the River Euphrates and the Juris…
Pastor Jëan Ross: That’s right.
Pastor Doug: …still out on that one. Yeah. But you know, it’s interesting, they actually say the Euphrates River is drying up over there because Turkey is damming it right now. So, it is [laughing].
Pastor Jëan Ross: Is that right? Yeah.
Pastor Doug: Yeah. It’s kind of an interesting study. But listening friends, hey, this is a faith ministry. We hope that you’ve been blessed. And if the Holy Spirit tugs at your heart—I hope He does—let us hear from you. If you want to just drop us a line, tell us. Let us know. You can even do it at the website. You can make a little donation online to keep us on this station—amazingfacts.org, and most of all, the reason we do this is not so much about getting the details out but we want people to know about the Person and that would be Jesus Christ, the Truth that sets you free!
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