Hello friends! How about an amazing fact?
On August 24, 1875, Matthew Webb slipped into the water at Dover England and 21 hours and 45 minutes later touched land in France becoming the first person to conquer the English Channel. Swimming the English Channel became the greatest swimming challenge of the day. Since Webb's triumph, there had been over 6,200 known attempts to swim the English Channel, more than 470 people had been successful including a 12-year old boy in 1979 and a 12-year old girl in 1983. The first woman to swim the English Channel was 19-year old American, Gertrude Ederle. On the 6th of August 1926, she crossed the English Channel in 14 hours and 31 minutes, two hours faster than a man's record, setting a woman's world record that stood for 35 years.
Then came Alison Streeter known also as the queen of the Channel. She had swum this chilly Channel more times than anyone else, 43 crossings to date. Streeter first swam the Channel at 18 and was the first woman to swim the double—from England to France, and then back to England. And is the only woman ever to have completed the 3-way—from England to France, back to England, and then to France again. Stay tuned for more! You're listening to Bible Answers Live!
[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]
Pastor Jëan Ross: Welcome to “Bible Answers Live” brought to you by Amazing Facts Ministries. Are you looking for a clear, concise answer to your most challenging Bible questions? Maybe you’re struggling to understand difficult passages of Scripture. If so, you’ve come to the right place. Join us now as we open God’s word to discover His will and find honest, practical answers to your Bible-related questions.
This broadcast is pre-recorded. If you have a Bible question, call us Sundays from 7 to 8 P.M. Pacific Standard Time at 800-GOD-SAYS. That’s 800-463-7297. Now, let’s join our host, author, speaker, and evangelist, Pastor Doug Batchelor.
Hello friends! This is Pastor JëanRoss. Pastor Doug is out today but this is Bible Answers Live and if you have a Bible-related question, we would love to hear from you. The number here to the studio is 800-463-7297. That number again, 800-463-7297. That's 800-GOD-SAYS. We have phone lines that are now open. This is a good time to get to your phone and give us a call with your Bible question. Working the phones for us this evening is Brad. Brad, usually, you’re working the live stream for the program…
Brad: That’s right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …but now you're going to be doing both—working the live stream and also working the phones. Thanks for joining us. Before we open with a word of prayer, let's just remind our listeners they can join us online and they can watch the program live at live.amazingfacts.org. That web address is live.amazingfacts.org. Brad would you open a word of prayer.
Brad: Certainly! Father God, we thank you so much today for allowing us to study your word together. Please, we ask that your blessing be on us and those that are participating and calling in. We thank you so much. Amen!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Amen! Thank you, Brad. Friends, we opened the program by talking about Alison Streeter who swam the English Channel 43 times. That's tremendous feed of endurance! But possibly the greatest triumph of endurance is held by a man by the name of Benoit Lecomte who swam across the Atlantic ocean on the 16th of July 1998. He set out from Cape Cod with 8 wet suits, a snorkel, and some flippers. Navigated from the 40th and the 50th latitude by two French sailors on a 40-foot sailboat and protected by electronic force field, Lecomte swam 6-8 hours a day over 3,736 nautical miles of relentless waves. 72 days later, on the 28th of September, he swam ashore exhausted but heroic in France.
Now, did you know, friends, that the Bible teaches us that at the end of time, Christians will also need to have a high degree of endurance? I'm not talking so much about physical endurance but definitely spiritual endurance. Jesus said in Matthew 24:11 speaking of time at the end, He said, "Then many false prophets shall rise and deceive many, and because Lawlessness will abound the love of many will grow cold..." Matthew 24:13 then Jesus says, "...but he who endures to the end shall be saved." To be a Christian living at the end of time requires endurance, why? Revelation 12:17 says, "For the dragon was in rage with the woman and he went to make war with the remnant of her offspring, those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.
Well, friends, do you want to learn how you can have spiritual endurance especially in these last days? There is a book written by Pastor Doug and we'd be happy to send it to you. It's entitled, "The Armor of God." If you call our resource line which is 800-835-6747, and you can ask for the book, "The Armor of God," we'll be happy to send it out to you filled with Bible verses and studies telling you how you can endure in these last days. If you have a Bible question, the number here to the studio is 800-463-729. That's 800-463-7297, and Brad, we're ready for our first caller this evening.
Brad: We have Fred from Connecticut and he's on line 3. Fred, welcome to the program!
Fred: Yes. I was wondering, do you know where I would find the Scripture where God says, "I'll be a debtor to no man?"
Pastor Jëan Ross: I think you're thinking of Paul where it says, "Owe no man anything but to love." Let me see if I can pull that up here. Give me just a moment. Now Fred, why are you asking about that?
Fred: Well, it's just something that just basically it's been on my mind. I know we cannot give God or anything but I was just curious about that Scripture.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, the verse is Romans 13:8. I think this is the one you're referring to where Paul says, "Owe no man anything but to love one another for he that loveth another has fulfilled the Law." Is that the one?
Fred: Well, actually I thought it was more on the Old Testament. I don't know if different versions might word that differently.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, that could be depending upon what translation you might have. And I'm sure the same idea we can gather from the Old Testament as well. The importance there is staying out of debt. The Bible speaks of debt as being a rope or cord that binds a person.
Fred: Yup! Yeah, I know that's important. But anyway, yeah, I appreciate any feedback.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Well, thanks for your call. You know, you might also want to look at Leviticus 19:18 and verse 34, and then perhaps even Deuteronomy 6:5 might also give you a little more on that.
Fred: Okay. Thank you.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for your call, Fred. Alright. And our next caller for this evening?
Brad: Our next caller is Sandy from Illinois. Sandy, welcome to the program!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, Sandy. You're on Bible Answers Live.
Sandy: Hi Pastor, hi Brad. I was wondering is there any correlation between Ezekiel chapter 7:10-11 and Exodus chapter 4:16 through 24? It's about the rod and I know that in the Ark of the Covenant is the Ten Commandments, the rod—Aaron’s rod that budded—and the pot of manna but I was reading earlier this evening and ran across Ezekiel chapter 7:10 and 11 and that's why I was calling trying to get some insight and clarification please.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. So we're looking at Ezekiel chapter 7 and verse 10 that says, "So, Moses and Aaron went in to Pharaoh and they did so just as the Lord commanded, and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh and before the servants and it became a serpent." Now your question with that?
Sandy: No, was that Ezekiel chapter 7 verses 10 and 11?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm looking at Exodus chapter 7 verse 10.
Sandy: Yeah, Exodus... yeah.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Do you have Ezekiel in front of you?
Sandy: Yeah, I do. Ezekiel and it’s a New King James. Ezekiel chapter 7 verses 10 and 11, "Behold the day, behold it has come. Doom has gone out, the rod has blossomed. Pride has budded. Violence has risen up into a rod of wickedness. None of them shall remain, none of their multitude, none of them nor shall there be wailing for them." And that's why I was just... I didn't know if there's any connection or correlation because I had never notice that in Scripture before and so I didn't know if it was like a contrast or...
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.
Sandy: …what.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, the symbolism of a rod has to do with rulership or at times even justice or judgment and this passage in Ezekiel chapter 7 that we're referring to deals with the prediction of coming judgment upon Israel. And many commentators have understood the rod to really be the Babylonian or the Chaldean empire that was coming up against Jerusalem to conquer them. In that sense, the rod represents justice but you're right I think there is a connection, of course, you have Aaron's rod that budded representing God's ordaining of Aaron's family to be the priesthood for Israel. So again, leadership I think is the point that is being emphasized by the rod.
Sandy: Okay, because see, I didn't know because in Exodus 4:17 and that's, you know, it's talking about Aaron and it says, "You shall take this rod in your hand with which you shall do the signs," and then I think it's... yeah, so I didn't know.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Now, with reference to the rod in Exodus chapter 4 where it's talking about taking the rod, its judgments that were coming upon Egypt because they were, you know, bringing...
Sandy: Yeah! That's where I was wondering if...
Pastor Jëan Ross: ...terrible problems upon the Israelites.
Sandy: ...there was any connection because they both sound like judgment, so I wasn't sure.
Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right. That’s right. The rod referred to in Ezekiel has been identified as Babylon coming up against Israel.
Sandy: Okay. Okay.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Aright.
Sandy: Well, thank you.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for your call, Sandy.
Sandy: Okay. Bye, bye.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Our next caller is?
Brad: Our next caller is Thomas from New York. Thomas, welcome to the program!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, Thomas. You're on the air.
Thomas: Yes, I'm a first time caller. My name is Thomas and I want to know if James 1:1 about the 12 tribes are the same tribes that were in the land of Canaan during the time when in Canaan in the Old Testament?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Let me read it. James 1:1 it says, "James, a bond servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ to the 12 tribes which has scattered abroad. Greetings." So you’re wondering if the 12 tribes referred to here in James 1:1 is the same 12 tribes that we read about in the Old Testament.
Thomas: Right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes, it would. James who is writing to believers who were scattered throughout the Roman Empire refers to them as the 12 tribes. The book of James is written for Christians but it's written also with the leaning towards Jewish Christians. So James is addressing Jewish Christians scattered throughout the empire and refers to them as the 12 tribes.
Thomas: Okay. Alright. Alright, thank you.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Thanks for your call, Thomas. Again, if you have a Bible question, this is a good time to get to your phone and give us a call. The number to the studio is 800-GOD-SAYS that's 800-463-7297.
Brad: And we have Greg from Florida, he is in Orlando. Greg, welcome to the program!
Greg: Hi. Hi Brad, hi Pastor. How are you today?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi Greg, doing well.
Greg: Good. My question is dealing with the second coming of Christ and Revelation 1:7, it says, "Behold He is coming with clouds and every eye will see Him." When that says, “every eye will see Him,” does that mean we will see Christ all at the same time or various times around the globe? And what will He look like as it says in Revelation 1:14?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.
Greg: His head and hair were white like wool and as white as snow and has eyes like a flame of fire. Is John describing here the description of Christ, what He will look like when He comes again?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Well, let's begin with Revelation 1:7 where it says Jesus is coming with clouds and every eye will see Him. When Jesus comes again the second time, everyone will see Him in that as He comes to the earth and the earth is turning at some point in time, everybody will see Jesus coming. It's also possible that Christ will then circle the earth and gather up the righteous at that time and they'll be caught up to meet Jesus in the air. It doesn't say in verse 7 that everyone will see Him at exactly the same time. But when Jesus comes, everyone on earth will see Him coming. Now what will He look like? Well, Revelation chapter 1 describes Jesus not only having white hair and His eyes as a flame of fire but it goes on to give a detailed description. There is sharp two-edged sword coming out of His mouth, if you read in that chapter. And then in Revelation chapter 5, Jesus is described as appearing as a Lamb as it had been slain. Now remember Revelation is filled with symbols. And these various symbols represent things. For example, the white hair of Christ represents wisdom, and the eyes like flame of fire represents judgment. And the sword that comes out of His mouth represents the Word of God—the two-edged sword. So there's lots of symbols described in Revelation.
If you go to Revelation chapter 19, you have a picture of the second coming of Christ and He’s pictured coming on a white horse. And He’s coming as King of kings and Lord of lords…
Greg: Yes.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …and He has many crowns upon His head.
Greg: Yes.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Again, that's another description of the coming of Jesus. He's not coming on a white horse. He's coming on a cloud, we know that.
Greg: Yes.
Pastor Jëan Ross: But a white horse was a symbol of victory. Often, generals would return from battle victorious riding on a white horse. So Jesus is coming victorious to claim His people.
Greg: Very good. Okay, perfect! That's great, thank you so much.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we do have a study guide dealing with the subject of the second coming of Christ and I think we talk a little bit about Revelation chapter 1:7 in the study guide. We'd be happy to send it to you, Greg, if you call our resource line. The number is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide, “The Ultimate Deliverance.” That's 800-835-6747. And if you'd like to get your call in on the program this evening, the number to the studio is 800-GOD-SAYS that's 800-463-7297. Brad, who's our next caller?
Brad: Our next caller is Don from Washington. Don, you're on the program!
Don: Yes, thank you for taking my call. Would you explain to me Genesis 2 verses 13 and 14? It seems to be in context. It's referring to the Garden of Eden but it mentioned Ethiopia towards the East of Assyria and the 4th river is the river Euphrates. I find it quite curious that these are mentioned in the Garden of Eden. Could you explain?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay, that's a good question. Now, these rivers that are mentioned, we're not quite sure exactly the location of several of them.We know the river Euphrates. We know where that is. We also know where Assyria is. We also know Ethiopia. So it would appear at the Garden of Eden before the flood here on earth actually was situated in the Middle East. In the area of Syria over to actually part of Iraq would be where the Garden of Eden was located. It was very different back then than it is now. Now it's dry and desert-like but, of course, at creation, it was a beautiful place. And that’s where the Garden was. Now I'm sure, Don that things changed with the flood. You know, you have tremendous upheaval and you had land masses moving around. But based upon the fact that these rivers are mentioned and we have an idea of where they were, it would tell us where the Garden of Eden was located.
Don: Oh, okay. Okay. I wondered about this for a long time.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Well, thanks for calling. Good question.
Brad: Our next caller is Johnny, he is in New York. Johnny, welcome to the program!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi Johnny. Welcome to the program! You're on the air.
Johnny: Hello?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes, we can hear you, Johnny.
Johnny: Oh, God bless you, Pastor.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You're welcome. Thanks for calling, and your question?
Johnny: Yeah, appreciate it. Listen, few weeks ago I called you right regarding Solomon? Because lots of people still preaching that. You know, they are teaching that Solomon didn't make it to heaven. You told me that he was not sure but I forgot to ask you if you know any scripture from the Bible that show exactly where the, you know, it says that he went to heaven.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Well, good question. You know, the New Testament doesn't tell us for sure whether or not Solomon went to heaven but by reading the books that Solomon wrote—you remember he was the king of Israel following his father David—he had a good example in his father. He also prayed for wisdom and the Lord gave him great wisdom. But he wasn't always faithful. He kind of went his own way but near the end of his life, he returned to God. And you can read about that in the book of Ecclesiastes as well as the book of Proverbs. Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, and Proverbs. And when you read Ecclesiastes, it brings quite clearly that Solomon realized the error of his way and he returned to God in his later years. So based upon his writings and the fact that those books are included in Scripture, one would deduce that he came to the Lord and will be in the resurrection.
Johnny: Yeah, because I read in my dictionary, Bible dictionary, that Nathan… God say to Nathan today that to give a message that he was going to be a... he was going to have a promise of the, you know, to make to... to inherit the throne.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. And, of course, Solomon inherited the throne from his father and then Solomon's son, Rehoboam, took the throne and it was at that point that the kingdom divided between the 10 tribes of the north and Judah and part of Benjamin and Levi in the south.
Johnny: That's enough evidence, right? That's enough evidence to believe the he made it up to heaven?
Pastor Jëan Ross: I believe so. The fact that he wrote books in the Bible, we have them.
Johnny: Yeah.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And then also the content of Ecclesiastes and Proverbs that talks about how that he came back to God at the end of his life.
Johnny: Oh no, it’s so easy how God is going to choose someone writing now almost four books in the Bible that he'll make it to heaven? You know, that's ridiculous. They don't believe this. They don’t believe it, you know.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Now I believe there’s plenty of sufficient evidence...
Johnny: Yeah...
Pastor Jëan Ross: ...that Solomon will be saved. He did come to the Lord.
Johnny: Yeah. By faith we believe anyway, right?
Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right.
Johnny: Yeah, okay. God bless you, brother… Pastor.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Thanks for calling, Johnny.
Johnny: You too. Bye-bye.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to the studio is 800-463-7297. And our next caller?
Brad: Our next caller is Melody, she is in Arkansas. Melody, welcome to the program!
Melody: Hello.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi Melody, you're on the air.
Melody: Yes, hello.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi.
Melody: Good evening. My question has to do with Bible versions. I know there's different paraphrases and versions in the Bible and my main question has to do with the King James and the New King James. I know many people who swear by using nothing but King James and when the Bible says that not one jot are to let this word to be changed and I guess this is where my question is coming in.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.
Melody: I know that New King James has been used very many times as we… as I've heard Mr. Doug Batchelor in different sermons.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Let me tell a few things about Bible translations. As you mentioned in your question, you've got translations and then you have paraphrases. The difference is a paraphrase is, usually if it’s an English paraphrase, someone will read an English version and then write the passage of Scripture in their own words maybe highlighting a particular point. And paraphrases are helpful if you're reading to try and get the idea or the thought that’s conveyed. But when it comes to deep Bible study, you want to go with a good translation. Now, when it comes to translations, there are two families of translations—two groups of manuscripts that are used. The one’s called the Byzantine manuscripts, the other is called the Alexandrian manuscripts—two families of manuscripts.
The Byzantine manuscripts is what the King James, and most of the King James is based on, and also the New King James Version. Some of the other translations that are popular today, for example, the NIV and the Revised Standard, some of these are based more upon the Alexandrian family of text. And that's why you will notice at times a little difference in a phrase or a verse between the King James and maybe the NIV. It's because they’re based upon different manuscripts especially for the New Testament. Now...
Melody: Okay.
Pastor Jëan Ross: ...personally, I like the Byzantine family of text—the King James, it's been around for a long time. Now from the Byzantine manuscripts, you have the "Textus Receptus," that was a Greek translation at least gathered together all of the books of the New Testament and that became known as the "Textus Receptus" and that's what the King James is based on whereas the New King James, even though it's based upon "Textus Receptus," it also goes back to the Byzantine family of text. So it’s a… I like that translation. It's solid it's true to the original. And that's what we look for when it comes to Bible translation.
Melody: Yes, that's right. So who has questioned using the New King James?
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, I have no problem using the New King James. There are some words and phrases that you'll find in the King James that is rather Archaic and difficult to understand whereas the New King James is modernized in the English, taken out some of the Thee’s and the Thou’s and just made it easier for our modern language.
Melody: Yes. I think that’s where my main question is. The one I know who questioned these are saying that just a small changes change the meaning and the verse or whatever the topic is.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, you got to be careful…
Melody: I just want to get your opinion.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …right. You got to be careful with different translations. It's good to compare different translations to try and find out. Sometimes having a good concordance that you can go to or a good Bible software or study material that can actually give you the definitions of the original Greek words is also helpful when you're doing deep study.
Melody: Yes. Okay.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, Melody, we've got a book that talks about the Bible and it goes into this in a little more detail. I think you'd enjoy it. It was written by Pastor Doug. It's called, “The Ultimate Resource.” And if you'd call out resource line, we'll send you “The Ultimate Resource.” The number is 800-835-6747. And again, you can ask for the book, “The Ultimate Resource” and we'll be happy to send it to you. Brad, let's see if we can get one call in before our break. Who's our next caller?
Brad: Alright, our next caller is David from Minnesota. David, you're on the air.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi David, we’ve got about a minute and a half.
David: Okay, I'll make it short. One of the Ten Commandments is, “Thou shall not lie.”
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.
David: What if you are, you know, back in time and maybe some Nazi soldiers are looking for Jewish people and you're hiding them?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.
David: And they come to your door and they say, “Are you hiding Jewish people?” and you lied to when you say, “No, I'm not.”
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright.
David: Is it okay to lie for the good or we be holy even to evil people that would cause people their lives if you told them the truth?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. Well, you know, that's a good question. There are different circumstances that people might find themselves in and the obvious thing to do is to lie or falsify something to try and preserve life. But you know, I've also heard of cases of people who were honest and even in the situation as you mentioned during the 2nd World War, I'm thinking of one family—Cori Ten Boom’s family, where some Nazi soldiers came and knocked on the door and they said, “Are you hiding Jews here?” and being convicted to tell the truth because of the commandments, the response was, "Yes, we are." And it's as if God closed the ears of the soldiers and they said, “Okay,” and they turned and they left.
So, you know, God is able to take care of us when we put our confidence in Him. And I think it's good to trust in God in every circumstance and leave the results with Him. He will take care of it.
Friends, you're listening to Bible Answers Live. You know, Brad, just before we take our break halfway through the program, I'd like to let folks know about the Amazing Facts website, amazingfact.org, filled with all kinds of great resources. We'll often give free material on the program. You’re going to have to go to the Amazing Facts website and you'll be able to read and study right online. You can also enroll in the free online Bible school. We have 27 lessons divided into 2 parts—the first 14 are basic lessons and then the 2nd half deals with deeper prophetic truths. We talked about different aspects of Revelation—who is the beast of Revelation chapter 13? What is his mark and how can we make sure that we understand where God wants us to be and what we need to be doing in these last days? So, a great resource for anyone. It's free. Go to the Amazing Facts website and you can click on the free study guide link. And you can enroll right online.
Also, be sure to take a look at our free library, online library, where you can read the various books that Amazing Facts has produced and learn more about us. We’ll be back in just a moment.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hello friends! You're listening to Bible Answers Live. My name is Jëan Ross. And Pastor Doug is out this evening but working the phones for us is Brad. Brad, just before we go to the phone lines, we want to let folks know about our live streaming that is happening right now. It's live.amazingfacts.org live.amazingfacts.org. If you have a Bible question, this is a good time to call. The number is 800-GOD-SAYS that's 800-463-7297, 800-463-7297 and you can get your question on the air. Alright Brad, who is our next caller?
Brad: Our next caller is Robert from New York. Robert, welcome to the program!
Robert: Hello Pastors.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi Robert.
Robert: Thank you for taking my call. I'd like to ask a question about last days Scripture in the Bible in a number of places where it speaks about the house of Judah walking with the house of Israel and, example, one of the places there is, I think there's many, but Jeremiah 3:18, it says, "In those days, the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel and they should come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for inheritance unto your fathers." I wonder if you, Pastors, have any intelligence you can offer us on what the sacred author might have meant when he makes the distinction apparently between the house of Judah and the house of Israel in the latter days.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay, good question. Of course, you know the history between Judah and Israel. It was during the reign of Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, that the 10th tribe of the north broke away and took to them the king by the name of Jeroboam. So you had Jeroboam, king of the north, and then Rehoboam, king of the south. And the kingdom of the south, which was capital in Jerusalem, included Judah, Levi and then portion of the tribe of Benjamin. The rest of the 10 tribes, they got dispersed amongst the Assyrian empire. Some still remained but ended up into marrying with some of the Assyrians. But in Scripture, we find a coming together especially in the context of the last days. What we need to understand that especially in prophecy when you get to Revelation, God's people, those who believed in Christ, they’re referred to as Jews. As Paul says, “If you are Christ's then you are Abraham’s seed and an heir according to the promise.” So spiritually speaking or symbolically speaking, those who have faith in Christ, they become spiritual Jews.
The Bible speaks of the day when God will gather together all of His people from the four corners of the earth. And that's the great gathering where Jesus comes. The righteous dead are resurrected, the righteous living are caught up to meet Him in the air, and He's gathering together His people scattered throughout the nations. Revelation chapter 7 describes a great multitude standing with the Lamb on Mt. Zion. And there, from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. That represents God's people. Spiritual Israel at the end of time. But I do also believe that this does refer to the gathering that we see happening even now in the Middle East where Jews are coming back to their homelands—the land promised to their fathers.
Robert: You don’t enter into the question anything like some people speak about the lost 10 tribes or something are coming… coming back. You know, the...
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, God knows who's His. Again, the general thrust in the New Testament is not so much on literal Israel but it is on spiritual Israel.
Robert: I see.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And God is calling His faithful people whatever their nationality, wherever they are, He is calling them to come to Him and He will gather together His people. So there's no real distinction at least from God's eyes during New Testament times. Anyone who believes in Christ is a descendant of Abraham and a spiritual Jew.
Robert: You look at it like the “Israel of God” idea.
Pastor Jëan Ross: The Israel of God, yes.
Robert: Okay. Alright, thank you, Pastor.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You're welcome! You know, we do have a book...
Robert: Have a good day.
Pastor Jëan Ross: ...talking about Israel especially in the prophetic sense. It was written by our Pastor Doug Batchelor. It’s called, "Israel." And if you would just call our resource line and you can ask for that book, we'd be happy to send it to you. It's “Who is Israel?” or “Spiritual Israel.” The number is 800-835-6747 800-835-6747. Brad, who's our next caller?
Brad: Our next caller is James from San Diego California. James, welcome to the program!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi James, you're on the air.
James: Yes sir, how are you doing? Everybody hear me?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes. We can hear you well.
James: Great, great! Thank you. I’ve got questions, a couple here. It's referring to Revelation chapter 17 verse 10. I just want to see if you guys can share some lines on that.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure. Let me read it. It says, "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come and when he comes, he must continue a short time." Now, you are wondering who are these five fallen kings?
James: Yes.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. A little more is given in verse 9 where it talks about 7 heads and these 7 heads are 7 mountains. Let me explain. Revelation chapter 17 begins by describing a woman, her name is Babylon, and she's riding upon a scarlet beast that has 7 heads and 10 horns. We find a beast in Revelation 12 also having 7 heads and 10 horns. Now these 7 heads are identified as 7 kings or kingdoms. These are the principal political powers that Satan would work through to persecute God's people. They've been identified as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Pagan Rome, and then the church state Rome during the dark ages. These 7 principal nations that have worked against God's people throughout the time period from Abraham all the way through.
James: Okay. So I guess then, the latter part of verse 10, you know, “one is, and the other has yet to come…”
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes.
James: Is that referring to somebody or our system right now?
Pastor Jean Ross: Yes, it does. Let me go through those. It says, “There are also 7 kings. Five are fallen…” So the kingdoms that had fallen by the time John wrote in Revelation about 80 or 90 A.D., you have Egypt, Syria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece—five that are fallen “one is” that would be Rome and “one is yet to come,” that would be Papal Rome or the church state that was to come during the Dark ages and then it says, “He himself is even of the 8th.” So there is a continuation of that power at the end of time.
James: Okay. Okay. Alright. Great! That pretty much answered the question.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. We have a study guide dealing with this. I think you'd find it interesting, it's called, "The Other Woman," deals with Revelation chapter 17. And if you’d call our resource line, we'd be happy to send that to you, James. The number is 800-835-6747. Again, 800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide, “The Other Woman.” And if you have a Bible question, the number to the studio is 800-463-7297.
Brad: We’ve got Quintin in Youngtown. Quintin, you're on the air.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, is that Cynthia?
Brad: I’m sorry…
Cynthia: Yes.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi Cynthia, welcome to the program!
Cynthia: Thank you for taking my call. My question is where in the Bible does it say that we should move to the country or… in the… during the the last days?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Well, it doesn't say anywhere specifically in the Scripture that we need to move to the mountains. However, we do find in Revelation chapter 12 a woman, which represents the church, she's persecuted by the dragon, which represents Satan. And it says she flees into the wilderness into a desolate place where she is protected from the dragon. Throughout history, when God's people of faith persecution, they've often found safety in more desolate regions. During the dark ages, those who were persecuted went up to the mountains of Northern Italy. And we know them as the "Waldensians." And throughout Europe, people who were suffering persecution for religious reasons, they would often withdraw from the major cities and would be out in country areas. Revelation chapter 13 describes a time that is yet to come where the beast power of Revelation 13 forces everybody to receive the mark of the beast. Those who refuse to receive the mark of the beast, they will face persecution. They will, probably, find safety out of the major cities.
We also know that the plagues that's spoken up in Revelation, just part of the coming of Christ, will fall upon the earth. You probably don't want to be in populated areas where there... when there are earthquakes and floods and different types of things happening right before Christ comes.
Cynthia: Okay. Well, that answers my question then. But I know that... I mean I'm trusting that God is going to take care of His people whether we go through these. But we need to, I guess, be proactive. Is that what’s…
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, we want to pray and allow the Lord to lead.
Cynthia: Right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, if we’re in the middle of downtown city, first off, we need to ask ourselves is, is that the best environment that we can be and especially if we have family and children? Is that the best place spiritually to raise a family? And then also, we want to pray and let God lead us and let Him open up the doors and follow where He leads.
Cynthia: Okay. Okay, and thank you so much.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Thanks for your call, Cynthia. Who do we have next?
Brad: Danny, Danny in Minnesota. Danny, welcome to the program!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi Danny, you're on the air.
Danny: Thank you, Pastor Ross. My question is about Genesis 3:22, and it says, "Then that the Lord God said..." So I'm assuming that was either God the Father or God the Son. "Behold the man has become like one of Us…” some Bibles say “as one of Us” where the “Us” as capitalized. Now the man referring, I would imagine is Adam, and “becoming like one of Us," well, now he’s disobedient just like Satan. So, I just don't understand who it’s talking about and who is “Us” and...
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Alright Good question.
Danny: “…like one of Us,” wouldn’t it be like one of us, well, if he's like one of us, wouldn’t it be like God the Father, God the Son, and getting on to the Trinity?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. Alright.
Danny: I'm confused.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Now… Sure, let's talk about that verse for a moment. Just prior to this, of course, in Revelation… I'm sorry, Genesis 3, you have the fall where Satan came in the form of a serpent tempting Eve and said, “You shall be like gods, knowing good and evil.” Now, up until that point, Adam and Eve did not know evil. They only knew good. And that was always God's plan—that they only know good. It was never His will that they know evil. But when they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they gained the knowledge of evil. And when God says, “They've become like one of us,” He’s referring to the fact that now, Adam and Eve have a knowledge of evil. God knows everything. God, of course, is not evil but He knows the consequences of sin. He knows the results of evil. And when Adam and Eve sinned, they got a knowledge. They obtained the knowledge of evil of sin. And that's what’s been referred to here in this verse.
Danny: Wonderful. Thanks for that wonderful explanation.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, thanks for your call. Thanks Danny. Who's our next caller?
Brad: Our next caller is it’s Olester in Orlando. Olester, welcome to the program!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi Olester, you're on the air.
Olester: Hi Pastor and Brad. How are you doing?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Doing well, thanks.
Olester: I absolutely love this show. I think it's just so beneficial to all the cowards to be able to call in and ask questions and I just want to praise you for what you do.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We enjoy it.
Olester: My question today... first thing I would like to ask is, is there a Scripture where it says that Lucifer was cast to the earth and/or the center of the earth? Because I've heard that before. And then secondly, if he was cast to the center of the earth and all those angels went with him, then was Adam and Eve created after he was cast there?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.
Olester: And the perception of why would God plant a demonic being that was so powerful like Him? Because I know Lucifer was one of the big… of the three big reigning angels. So he was very powerful. Then you have Adam and Eve, almost following up the exact question that you just got. Why would He put such a powerful, demonic being that was evil? And then there’s band of angels that went with him and then create us and have us be an innocent baby that really don’t know good and evil to be tempted. And then, basically, I’m just curious. I’ve just always wondered. How can that be fair? It’s almost like having a baby and saying, “Don’t open this door,” you know, closing it. It’s just real odd…
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, that’s a good question. Let me begin with the verse that you’re referring to. It’s Revelation chapter 12 verse… let’s see, verse 7, 8, and 9. That would be the passage. Revelation 12:7 says, “And a war broke out in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon and the dragon fought and his angels. But they did not prevail nor was place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out. That old serpent of old called the devil and Satan who deceives the whole world. He was cast unto the earth and his angels were cast out with him.”
So the Bible tells us that there was this rebellion that began in heaven. Lucifer rose up against God. As a result of this rebellion, Satan and his angels were expelled from heaven. Now, right about this time, just after this rebellion took place in heaven—we don’t know how long—but sometime after this, God creates earth. And when he creates earth and he creates Adam and Eve, He tells them they can eat of all of the trees of the Garden but don’t eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now, I’m sure God must have told them about this rebellious angel because God is fair and God was not willing that Adam and Eve eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Nevertheless, He gave them freedom of choice. You see, God honors freedom of choice. And the reason for that is love cannot be forced. Love has to be freely given. And God is a God of love.
So the only kind of worship that God will accept is worship that is freely given. And if you’re going to give somebody freedom, you’re going to give them the ability to choose. And so, God gave Adam and Eve freedom. And that freedom was symbolized in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God said, “Don’t eat of the tree.” And all Adam and Eve had to do was to stay away from that tree and there wouldn’t have been any problem. But you know the story, Adam and Eve ate of that tree. And they obtained a knowledge of evil.
Now, when Adam and Eve sinned, of course, God stepped in with the plan of redemption and He gives us a second chance. It’s a chance for us to be forgiven and cleansed. And a chance for us to live forever. But when Adam and Eve sinned, Adam claimed this earth is his. In that sense, he was cast into the earth. Now, the earth becomes Satan’s domain. You see, God ordained Adam to be the representative of the earth but when Adam succumbed to Satan’s temptation, Satan usurp authority and claimed the earth as his. That’s why when Jesus was on the earth and the devil tempted Jesus, took him up to a high mountain, the devil said to Jesus, “If you bow down and worship me, I will give you all the kingdoms of this world.” Well, how could Satan give Christ the kingdoms of this world? Well, Satan claimed the world as his.
Now, when Jesus died on the cross, Jesus gained the right to now be the representative. Satan is no longer the representative of earth. Christ now, the second Adam, is the representative of the earth. So, is it unfair? Well, not really. God gives us freedom—freedom to choose. And even though Adam and Eve chose to obey the serpent versus obeying God, God did not leave them alone. He came to them with a plan of salvation. He came to give them hope, a future, and eternal life. Does that make sense? Let me see, it’s… go ahead and press line 8. Olester, are you still there?
Olester: Yes, I’m here.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You’re there, okay. We lost the connection here for just a moment.
Olester: Yeah, I was asking questions and I guess you weren’t hearing me.
Pastor Jëan Ross: I’m sorry, yeah. Did…
Olester: No, that’s okay. What I was asking…
Pastor Jëan Ross: Did that explanation help a little bit?
Olester: Yes, it did help. I guess the biggest thing I was asking is whether you believe God put basically man and Lucifer together even though they didn’t know each other or are connected? Did He put us together on purpose for a reason? For choice?
Pastor Jëan Ross: I don’t believe that it’s… Sure, I don’t believe it was ever God’s purpose that man sinned. It was never God’s will that Lucifer sinned but God still gave Lucifer freedom.
Olester: Well, right. I believe that. I just meant the choice part. Do you think He did it to create choice?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay. You know, I don’t know…
Olester: That’s an interesting question.
Pastor Jëan Ross: I don’t know. That’s may be something we’ll have to ask God when we get to heaven but…
Olester: Right, right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …even before Lucifer…
Olester: You can just sit down and reason with Him?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Sure. But you know, even in heaven, before Lucifer rebelled, he still had choice.
Olester: Right, right.
Pastor Jëan Ross: So, in order for Adam and Eve to have choice, they didn’t have to have Lucifer there.
Olester: Right. And…
Pastor Jëan Ross: But…
Olester: …when you mentioned about going to the cross, did Jesus… because I understand His sacrifice for us. I believe that Jesus won us back with the same law we were lost with, meaning sin is death. And Lucifer took Jesus to Hell and Jesus never sinned. Most people focus on the sacrifice but I’m up to believe that, basically, it was like a chess game just like Lucifer trying to kill Jesus at earth that he was played. And basically, at the point on the cross when He said, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” He had to let Lucifer take Him to Hell so that He could win us back with the same law He lost us with, which is sin is death.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, Olester, you’re right. Our only hope of salvation is having Jesus take our place. He stepped in the gap. He stepped in, took the consequences of our sin, which is death, so that we could receive the merits of His life, which is eternal life. And that’s the great gift of salvation. Despite the fact that we exercised freedom contrary to God’s will, God still had a plan of redemption. And that’s the good news! The good news of the gospel.
Well, thank you for your call. We need to try and squeeze in a few more here before we ran out of time. Brad, who’s our next caller?
Brad: Our next caller is Mark in Buffalo. Mark, welcome to the program!
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi Mark, you’re on the air.
Mark: Yeah. I’m in Canada, actually. You know…
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, that’s pretty close to Buffalo, isn’t it?
Mark: Yup, yup.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.
Mark: No, that’s what I told them, I was right by Buffalo.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Oh, okay.
Mark: You know, I like that last guy you were just talking. You know, I think it’s… I always thought about that, too. But it’s more of… I think it’s kind of maybe, you know, maybe like Satan was trying to make it fair, “Hey, you know what? Don’t worship me, You give them a chance to worship me and we’ll see,” you know.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Right, right.
Mark: So, again, it gets to that choice, you know, because he wants to be worshipped.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah, absolutely. That’s what he wants.
Mark: Okay. Okay, now, just yes or no. Did Jesus go to Hell?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Jesus died for us…
Mark: Yes?
Pastor Jëan Ross: …and in Scripture, death is sometimes referred to as Hell. Now, there’s different words that’s used in Scripture with reference to death. One is “Hades…”
Mark: Yeah?
Pastor Jëan Ross: …which means just the place of death. And then there are other words that refer to a place… well, “Tartarus” was a Greek word that refers to a Greek mythology of a place of torment. But Jesus paid the penalty of our sins, which is death.
Mark: Yeah.
Pastor Jëan Ross: “For the wages of sin is death.” So Jesus died.
Mark: So He just took sin to Hell and that’s it, dropped it off. I’m just… maybe I don’t know.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah. He paid the price.
Mark: Okay now… okay. Now, my real question was like the pre-Adamic world, like when Satan was cast and the angels, did they roam… live among the earth before man was created?
Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, they roam the universe looking for a place that they could call “home.” You know, there’s worlds out there. Hebrews talks about this. And then if you read in the book of Job, it says, “There was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan shows up as representative of earth.”
Mark: Yeah.
Pastor Jëan Ross: So prior to Satan being able to get Adam and Eve to sin, He was probably just wandering around the universe with his angels. And then he watches as God creates the earth and he goes, “Ah! Brand new people! Let me see if I can get them.”
Mark: Yeah.
Pastor Jëan Ross: And once he got Adam and Eve to sin, then the world sort of became his domain.
Mark: Yeah, because, you know, thinking about God’s eternity when He existed for so long, you know, it just over-boggles our mind. So, you know…
Pastor Jëan Ross: No beginning, no end.
Mark: Some people say the earth could only be 6000 years old but some people say could be billions of years, or so. Right? So, actually, we really don’t know, huh?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, you know, the Bible, if you count up the ages from Adam all the way to now, it’s roughly about 6000 years old.
Mark: Yeah, to that. But then, when the world was without form and void…
Pastor Jëan Ross: Without form and void, now, we don’t know. We don’t know if God created the earth and just kind of left it for now and came back and created on it later or whether He did that all at the same time. Again, these are things that the Bible just doesn’t tell us.
Mark: Yup. But praise the Lord! We will know someday.
Pastor Jëan Ross: We will. He’ll answer all those questions for us. Thanks for your call, Mark. Good question. Are we going to try and squeeze in a few more? Who’s our next caller?
Brad: Our next caller is Sonia in the Bronx. She’s from New York. Sonia, welcome to the program!
Sonia: Pastor?
Pastor Jëan Ross: Hi, Sonia.
Sonia: Hi, thank you for taking my call.
Pastor Jëan Ross: You’re welcome.
Sonia: Yeah. I have a passage in 1 Chronicles chapter 4 reading from verse 9 to 10 and it’s about Jabez.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Okay.
Sonia: And I just want to ask the question. So, Jabez was more honorable than his brethren and his mother called his name Jabez saying, “Because I bear thee with sorrow.” Could you explain that to me?
Pastor Jëan Ross: It appears as though for the birth of Jabez, the mother had gone through tremendous pain. Of course, there are always these pain involved at least most times in child birth. But it seems in this case, she went through tremendous pain and that kind of ties him with his name. Does that help, Sonia?
Sonia: Yes.
Pastor Jëan Ross: So, often, you’ll find the names in Scripture associated with some aspect of their early life. Sometimes the birth. For example, you think of Jacob. The name Jacob means deceiver. And the reason the name means deceiver or supplanter was because Jacob and Esau were both twins. And in the process of the birth, it appeared as though Jacob was going to… or Esau was going to be brought… sorry, Jacob was going to be born first but Esau ends up coming out first. And so the names often are related to some aspect of their birth or early life.
Sonia: But in verse 10, it shows us that Jabez was not too happy about his name.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah, he didn’t like it. You know, Jacob probably didn’t like the name of deceiver either. Eventually, God changed his name to Israel as a prince with God. Jabez probably didn’t like his name.
Sonia: Because he called on the Lord and the Lord did help him?
Pastor Jëan Ross: The Lord used him in a mighty way…
Sonia: Mighty way, yeah.
Pastor Jëan Ross: …to deliver His people. He did. He did.
Sonia: Okay.
Pastor Jëan Ross: Well, thank you for your call, Sonia.
Sonia: Thank you…
Pastor Jëan Ross: And we appreciate it. Well, friends, you can hear the music playing there in the background. We have ran out of time. And you know, Brad, this is probably the fastest hour of the week for me. I sure do enjoy it. Nothing better than talking about the Bible. I would like to thank all of those who called in for the program. Thanks for joining us and if we didn’t get to your call tonight, give us another chance. Call back next week and we’ll try to get you on the air. Until then, God bless.
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