The Elephant Bird

Around the 1600's, early Arabian and Indian explorers began returning from the coast of East Africa with accounts of gigantic birds twice as tall as a man and three times as big as an ostrich. At first their stories were scoffed at, but then they brought evidence. Eggs, huge eggs, up to three feet in circumference.

They were the eggs of a giant, flightless bird found on the island of Madagascar that would later become known as the "Elephant Bird" or "aepyornis maximus." The name "Elephant Bird" came from the stories of Marco Polo, who referred to the colossal birds of Madagascar that could lift an elephant.

These birds are also thought to have been the inspiration for the Roc, a giant bird made famous in the stories of Sinbad. Evidently, the Elephant Bird was the largest bird that has ever lived. It's estimated that it may have weighed up to 1,100 pounds and grown to over 11 feet tall. By comparison, a big ostrich might reach eight feet and 300 pounds.

By the time the French settled at Madagascar around 1642, the Elephant Birds had already become very rare. The last sighting of a live bird was around 1649. The native histories of Madagascar generally describe the Elephant Bird as a shy, peaceful giant. Most likely, the aepyornis was driven to extinction by people raiding their nests for the extraordinary eggs that were even bigger than the largest dinosaur eggs.

One of the largest, intact specimens is 35 inches in circumference around it's long axis, and probably had a capacity of more than two gallons. In fact, some biologists calculate that these eggs were as large as a functional egg could possibly be, meaning the eggs of the extinct Elephant Birds were the largest single cells to have ever existed on earth. Many people thought the Elephant Bird was just a myth until they saw the undeniable evidence.

Some people still think the devil is a mythical beast in spite of the obvious evidence. Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Doug: Welcome once again listening friends to a fresh serving of Bible Answers Live. For anyone who has just happened, by God's providence, upon this program, it is a live, international, interactive Bible study. We'd invite you to participate if you have any Bible-related questions.

In North America you've got a toll-free call. It's 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That will bring your question into the studio, 1-800-463-7297. Now is a very good time to pick up your phone and make that call because we have several lines open. I wonder if people are still recovering from the time change that we had about 2 am this morning?

Pastor Dick: [Laughs]

Pastor Doug: If you have a Bible question, we're on the air now friends. Pick up your phone and give a call, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. That's 1-800-463-7297. We'll also be sharing a resource number for the free resources we make available during the program. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Dick: My name is Dick Devitt, and that number is 1-800-835-6747; we'll just get it out of the way.

Pastor Doug: That's right. Call now, lines are open friends. You'll get your question on the air.

Pastor Dick: [Laughs] that was the resource number folks, but Doug's right. We have several lines open. If you have a Bible-related question, now is a good time to call, 1-800-GOD-SAYS. Good evening Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: Good evening Pastor Dick.

Pastor Dick: We normally start with a word of prayer so let's do that. Father in heaven, we want to thank You and praise You for the privilege that You give us of being able to open Your word and to share with each other. And it's my prayer, Lord, that Your Holy Spirit will abide with us, and that You will nurture us that we may grow in Your presence; that we may know that we have been with You this evening. Give Pastor Doug clarity of thought as we seek to answer questions and share the love of Jesus Christ. We thank You again. In Jesus' name, amen.

Pastor Doug: Amen!

Pastor Dick: Boy, that egg has to make a lot of omelets Pastor Doug.

Pastor Doug: That would be a grand slam breakfast wouldn't it?

Pastor Dick: [Laughs]

Pastor Doug: Two gallons in one egg

Pastor Dick: It made me kind of wonder what comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Pastor Doug: Well you know, that really is a good question because people often wonder did God make a devil?

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: They're wondering if God is all powerful, and God is good, and God is love, then why is there evil? If He's more powerful than evil, where did it come from? Why did He allow it?

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: What came first? Did the devil create himself? Where did sin come from? And a lot of people have questions about that. This is the time of year with the uh--I don't know if I even venture to call it the halloween "season," but it really has turned into a season because it goes on for weeks.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm, um-hm

Pastor Doug: But people are just obsessed with the monsters, scary genre of programming and evil.

Pastor Dick: Boy, I gotta turn it off I tell you. When I see those commercials on TV or...[sighs]

Pastor Doug: And a lot of people think it's just a big joke.

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Pastor Doug: They don't realize there really is a consummate evil entity in the world; and the Bible says that we do wrestle with spiritual powers of wickedness in heavenly places in these spiritual realms.

Pastor Dick: Um-hm, um-hm

Pastor Doug: Peter says, 1st Peter chapter 5, verse 8, "We need to be sober and vigilant; because our adversary the devil, goes around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he might devour." He is not a joke. He is not a mythological beast. He's very real.

Pastor Dick: But he wants to trick us into thinking that he doesn't exist, right?

Pastor Doug: Two extremes: One extreme is that people think that the devil is harmless. The other extreme is they go so far as to say that these cartoon characters of the devil, that it's just a joke and they don't take it seriously.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: Or that he's so powerful that God can't give us deliverance. That's the other extreme, of course. But between those extremes is the truth; and he is a very real being, but thank the Lord, Jesus said, "Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." [1st John 4:4].

Pastor Dick: Well--and I've often heard it said that for every truth that you find in the Bible, there is a counter-truth, if you will; a counterfeit - -

Pastor Doug: Exactly!

Pastor Dick: - - of something that God says is true, that will fit the devil's creation.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, and a lot of the popular concepts that people conjure when they think of the devil are based in Greek mythology; come from Pluto, the guardian of Hades.

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Pastor Doug: But uh, you know, he's this creature with bat-wings and red leotards - -

Pastor Dick: Yeah, yup, yup.

Pastor Doug: - - and horns. And none of that is in the Bible. It tells us that Lucifer, who became Satan, was a created angel who was perfectly good, who, through pride and conceit, went bad and became the consummate evil villain. "The adversary of God" is what "Satan" means.

Pastor Dick: Well, that leads right into the lesson that we have.

Pastor Doug: Free offer.

Pastor Dick: We'd like to make available to our listeners tonight, Pastor Doug, the lesson that's part of the Amazing Facts' Bible study guides. It's a lesson called "Did God Create the Devil?" It has a picture on the cover of this little, red-horned beast with a pitchfork in a pair of hands. Somebody told me they were your hands Pastor [laughs].

Pastor Doug: Yeah. If people want to see what my hands look like, they're used in the cover. We were there for the photo shoot and so they asked me to [chuckles] pose my hands anyway.

Pastor Dick: Okay. Well we want to make this available to folks. If you will call our resource operators tonight, 1-800-835-6747 is the number. If you'll call that number, the resource operators are standing by waiting for your call. Ask for this lesson called "Did God Create the Devil?" and we'll send it out to you.

This will, sort of, unpack for you where evil came from, why it is in this world, and answer the question: did God create the devil?

Pastor Doug: Okay

Pastor Dick: Alright. Pastor Doug, we try to take a couple of email questions before we go to the phones so let's start with the first one.

Pastor Doug: Alright.

Pastor Dick: The first question is, "Although I am convinced clearly that Adam will be saved, I find no biblical mention of Eve, other than in reference to her being the mother of all living and Adam's wife. The question is, is there any evidence that Eve ever repented and will she be found in heaven?"

Pastor Doug: Well the primary evidence is that Adam and Eve were both given skins to cover their nakedness.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: God did not say, "Let their be skin." The sacrificial system was instituted there in the Garden of Eden; and these, probably lambs, had to die to cover their nakedness. And Eve accepted that robe--and the word used there when it says "skins" is "tunics" of skin--she accepted that robe, just like Adam.

That leads us to believe she accepted the forgiveness the same way Adam did. You don't hear as much about Eve, quite honestly because the Bible is a patriarchal book.

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Many of the genealogies say very little about the women unless they had a prominent role.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm, um-hm

Pastor Doug: And even after Cain went out from the Garden of Eden, Eve, when Abel died, she said, "God has given her another son," Seth, who was a godly man; and Eve raised Seth. So we have reason to believe that her heart had been renewed and that she will be in the kingdom.

Pastor Dick: Okay. Second question. This comes from William. William says he, "Would like to know the difference, if there is any, between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God."

Pastor Doug: Well, the phrases are used interchangeably, but it might be safe to say there are two aspects of the kingdom of God. There is the literal kingdom of heaven and Jesus began preaching "the kingdom of heaven is at hand." He was speaking about this internal kingdom that was available.

Matter of fact, if you read in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus was trying to explain that the kingdom of heaven--well let me see here--Luke 17:20. "Now when he was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered, 'The kingdom of God does not come with observation: Nor will they say, "See here!" or, "see there!" for, indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.' "

So the first aspect of God's kingdom is something that we receive internally when Christ reigns on the thrones of our hearts. Then there is the literal kingdom of God, spoken of in Daniel, when God's kingdom fills the earth and there are no enemies or no challenges, so to speak.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm, um-hmm

Pastor Doug: That is when Christ reigns over the world, so to speak; but the kingdom of God and heaven are often used interchangeably.

Pastor Dick: Alright. Very good. Let's go next to our telephones and take the first caller for this evening. We'll start with Castroville, California and talk with Orion who's listening on the Internet. Good evening Orion.

Orion: Good evening Pastors

Pastor Dick: And your question please?

Orion: Oh, my question would be about Sunday. I read some things. I wanted to get your take on them. One thing was 2nd Corinthians 3:7, that calls the Ten Commandments the ministry of death and letters engraved in stone. I also read in Hosea 2:11 God says about the nation of Israel, "I will also put an end to all her gaiety or mirth," depending on what translation you've got, "all her feast days, her new moons and her sabbaths." And then I have in Acts 20, verse 7 showing that they gathered--the disciples gathered to break bread on the first day of the week; and I was hoping for an explanation.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Well you've taken three Scriptures; I might start with the last one, Acts 20, verse 7. First of all, when it says there that they gathered on the first day of the week, biblically, do you know when a day begins and ends?

Orion: Yeah, when the sun sets.

Pastor Doug: Okay. So when the disciples gathered, it tells us in that story in Acts 20, that it was dark; because it says there were many lights and Paul preached till midnight.

Orion: Yes

Pastor Doug: So what day of the week would we commonly call it now, when it is dark, on the first day of the week?

Orion: We would call--

Pastor Doug: It's what we call - -

Orion: - - if we were going by our clock now, we would call it Saturday night.

Pastor Doug: Exactly

Orion: But they call it the first day.

Pastor Doug: That's because the first day begins at sundown.

Orion: Sure

Pastor Doug: So, this meeting, they had been together all day Sabbath. Paul preached to them, ready to depart in the morning, the Bible says. So it's actually a Saturday night meeting. He's getting ready to travel the next day. He's certainly not keeping it as a holy day.

Orion: Well it says he prolonged his message until midnight--yeah, midnight. I've read it would have been about 6 am because they would have had to judge by the moon.

Pastor Doug: Yeah, but still, my point stands is that it was obviously a Saturday night meeting. They had been together all that day. He says he's departing in the morning, which he did. And there's nothing in the text that says this is now the new Christian sabbath. Nothing in there that tells us a new command is established or observation.

Orion: Oh okay

Pastor Doug: It's just a historical record. Then you asked about in 2nd Corinthians where it talks about the Ten Commandments. I know that you don't understand that verse to mean, when it talks about the "ministry of death," that the other Nine Commandments are either done away with or optional.

Orion: Uh no. I don't understand it to be that the law of--Jesus' law was not valid, which actually did cover the majority of the Commandments. No, but I understand that it means that the Ten Commandments, of themselves, could not bring life.

Pastor Doug: Well, it is true. The Ten Commandments are there, and James tells us they're not to save anybody. The Ten Commandments actually show us our sin. The law was given because of sin. Paul said, "I would not have known lust except the commandment that said, 'Thou shalt not covet.' " Well it doesn't mean that it's okay to covet now. We still must keep that Commandment.

But when we look into the law, it helps us realize our sin and the penalty for sin is death. So that's why Paul says the ministry of death can come from the law because without Christ's forgiveness, the law shows us our sinfulness.

Orion: But does Hosea prophesy the end of the Sabbath?

Pastor Doug: No, because even after Hosea made that prophecy, they still continued to keep the Sabbath.

Orion: Oh, of course, because Christ's death hadn't been fulfilled on the cross.

Pastor Doug: Well, but even during Jesus' life and after Christ ascended to heaven, they're still keeping the Sabbath Day. I mean, Paul - -

Orion: Is there any reference in the New Testament after the resurrection that shows a Sabbath gathering?

Pastor Doug: Yes, there are several.

Orion: Okay

Pastor Doug: You can look in Acts chapter 16. Matter of fact, Luke, who wrote the book of Acts, is a Gentile and he says, "On the Sabbath day we went out of the city to a river where prayer was customarily made." And Paul, it says he "reasoned with them every Sabbath."

So there's a lot of evidence in the New Testament that the apostles viewed the Sabbath the same way that Jesus did and even the Old Testament characters; and there's no commandment anywhere in the New Testament to keep any other day.

Orion: So they were traveling on the Sabbath in Acts 16?

Pastor Dick: Acts chapter 17, verse 2 also. It says that Paul went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day for three Sabbaths in a row. He reasoned with them and they were still meeting on the Sabbath. And the issue is, you know, if they were not worshiping on the Sabbath, why would Paul still be going on the Sabbath?

Orion: Because the Jews weren't, they weren't Christians yet.

Pastor Dick: Yes, but there were Gentiles with them; and it says almost the entire city gathered together on those days to worship together and they were worshiping in the synagogue.

Pastor Doug: Yup. It goes on to say that when the Jews did not accept Paul's teaching then he met on the Sabbath Day with the Gentiles.

Orion: Um m, where is that? Where's that?

Pastor Doug: That's in the same passage, in Acts 17.

Orion: Okay

Pastor Doug: Do you have our lesson? You've asked several questions, we're trying to be fair; but - -

Orion: I appreciate you, thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: We have a lesson that we'd be happy to send you that is uh - -

Orion: Okay. Last time I got cut off and I didn't get to speak to anybody. I was hoping to get the - -

Pastor Doug: Oh well you just call the resource number.

Orion: Oh okay

Pastor Doug: Or you can go to the website and read these things for free. Just go to AmazingFacts.org.

Orion: Wonderful!

Pastor Doug: Alright?

Orion: Okay, thank you very much

Pastor Doug: Alright, thank you.

Pastor Dick: Thanks for the call Orion. We really appreciate it. Pastor Doug, let's go next to pretty Texas. Tony is also listening on the Internet. Welcome Tony.

Tony: Hello

Pastor Dick: Yes, your question please?

Tony: My question is, I came into church back in 1979 and here, recently, I've been listening to a lot of your Storacles online. And they get really deep into how important the law is. Back then, I didn't--I guess really understand the part of the covenant. Are you still there?

Pastor Doug: Yes I am.

Pastor Dick: Uh-huh

Tony: Okay and, well, I got mixed up in the world. I think I broke all of God's Commandments many times over. I went through a bankruptcy where they dismissed over $30,000 dollars; and now I'm trying to come back to God. But I've been struggling with it for months, praying, and I don't get the same answers that I used to get when I had that born-again experience, you know, the first love?

Pastor Doug: Well you know, Tony, you can come back to God this very moment, just as you are, and get a new beginning. The key is just coming to the place where you say, "Lord, not my will, Thy will. I'm ready to let go and give you control of my life and trust You." Not only for control of your life, but for forgiveness. And you realize, Tony, that if you were dead, nothing would hurt you anymore, not bankruptcy, not what people say, your circumstances.

When you come to Christ and you're crucified with Him--I'm not recommending physical suicide--but spiritually; when you say, "You know Lord, I give up. I'm not going to live for myself anymore." It is very liberating to know that you have nothing to lose when you give everything to Jesus and a peace will flood your heart.

Tony: Well I've heard that before and I've been praying for that but I don't get it; and I've been talking to my pastor and opened up to him and he suggested re-baptism.

Pastor Doug: Well--and that may be - -

Tony: I did what you did. I wrote down all of my sins on paper.

Pastor Doug: And you told the Lord and you still don't feel any peace?

Tony: It's nothing like it was in the beginning.

Pastor Doug: Well, keep in mind, there's a story in the Bible Tony. Mary and Joseph went to the temple with Jesus and they lost track of Him. After three days they found Him again in the temple and they said, "We spent three days sorrowing and searching for You." When you wander from Jesus, sometimes there's a period of time of sorrowing and searching before you find Him again.

Not only does Jesus say, "Seek and you will find," He goes on to say in Jeremiah 29:13, "You will search for Me and you will find Me when you search with all of your heart." [Crosstalk, unintelligible] The Lord is wanting you to invest all of your heart; and you will find Him again and you'll find that peace.

Tony: One other thing. If you take your [tape skips] with a demon or if they harass you, sometimes when I pray, a spirit comes over me, you know, and it's just like shivers and all of that. And then I start questioning, you know, "Is this really God's spirit?" and I would say a prayer in secret and ask Him for the same thing and that's what would happen. You know, I'm just wondering if Satan has been tricking me all this time, so I'm thinking maybe I'm possessed (unintelligible).

Pastor Doug: Well, being possessed by the devil is different. All of us are tempted and harassed by the devil; and I'm sure the devil is harassing you because you're trying to come back to God and he doesn't want that.

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Tony: But can baptism--if you are possessed, will baptism get rid of that?

Pastor Doug: No, no. Baptism is the ceremony that seals your commitment. But it may be that through your making the commitment and saying, "Lord, I'm not going to go by my feelings. I'm going to trust what Your Word says." Now God's Word, Tony, says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Whether you feel cleansed or not, thank God for His promise and believe His Word.

Pastor Dick: Amen, amen!

Pastor Doug: You may not always feel it. You know, we'd like to pray with you right now, if that's okay Tony?

Tony: You bet.

Pastor Doug: Would that be alright? And I'll invite those listeners just to join us and direct prayers in your behalf.

Father in heaven, we're praying right now that You will help Tony to rediscover that first love that he has lost, and that peace. In spite of his circumstantial problems and heartaches, I pray that he can cast his cares on You and his sins, and know that Jesus has come to bear his burdens and his sin. I pray that You'll grant him peace and relief; and the devils that have been harassing him, I ask that You send good angels to surround him and to chase those evil forces away. So please bless him with that confidence that You do hear his prayer and that You do love him desperately, and want him to be saved. I'm asking this in Christ's name, amen.

Pastor Dick: Amen!

Tony: Thanks Pastors, appreciate it.

Pastor Doug: Alright, God bless. Hey, take a visit to the Amazing Facts' website. We've got some study guides there that deal with getting a new beginning with the Lord. It's free, and I think you'd enjoy that. It will really strengthen your faith. Thank you Tony.

Pastor Dick: You know, it's so often, Pastor Doug, an issue of overcoming feelings, because sometimes we're looking for something and Jesus is trying to do something else with us. And feelings, sometimes, we just have to leave them aside and trust Jesus Christ.

Pastor Doug: Someone to find courage is not someone who is without fear, but someone who does not consult their fear.

Pastor Dick: Exactly

Pastor Doug: But they do what's right.

Pastor Dick: Right

Pastor Doug: And faith is really courage. It's choosing not to consult your doubts and your fears.

Pastor Dick: Yeah. Let's move on to the Bronx, New York. We want to talk with Raymond who's listening on WMCA. Hello Raymond.

Raymond: Yeah, hello Pastor. How are you doing?

Pastor Dick: Good

Raymond: God bless you.

Pastor Doug: You too, and your question?

Raymond: My question is in the book of Matthew, the 23rd chapter and the 38th verse. He says, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

Pastor Doug: Yes

Raymond: That's the first question I have. I have another question too. Jesus is looking at Jerusalem and He's speaking, and I guess He's talking about the children of Israel when He makes that statement.

Pastor Doug: Right. You're talking about when He weeps over Jerusalem?

Raymond: Yeah, when weeps over Jerusalem. Now He's saying, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

Pastor Doug: Alright. Well keep in mind that when Christ began His ministry, He entered into the temple, which was the house of God there. And He says, "You have made My Father's house a den of thieves." He said, "My Father's house." And again, after three and a half years of preaching, He actually cleanses the sanctuary again where He chased out the moneychangers.

But then after His last week of teaching, they continued to oppose Him and reject His teaching. Finally, when He weeps over Jerusalem, He realizes that most of the leaders of that house were rejecting everything that temple pointed to. That whole purpose of that temple was to help them identify and recognize the Messiah.

So, He said, when He wept over the city, "Your house is left desolate." And of course, in Matthew 24, Jesus said in the next chapter, "There would be not left one stone upon another" when the temple was destroyed; so He was also looking ahead to what was going to happen to their house.

Raymond: Yes

Pastor Doug: When you chase out the Spirit of God, a house is desolate. It's like when a person dies and the spirit is gone, the house is desolate. It's a corpse.

Raymond: So that means that God's Spirit was no longer there in the synagogue or in the temple?

Pastor Doug: Yeah, no longer in the temple. That's why when Jesus died, the veil was torn from top to bottom signifying--the Old Testament word is "Ichabod." It means "the glory is departed."

Raymond: Right. Now if we look at Pentecost, it says that the disciples, they went from house to house. It's not speaking particularly about a temple. I know Paul went and taught in the temple on many Sabbaths.

Pastor Doug: That's true. Most of the Christians did not meet in churches until by the time of Paul, they began to build specific churches. Otherwise, they met in houses.

Raymond: Right, because at that time the Jews under Caiaphas were still opposed to Christ, were still opposed to the teachings of Christ.

Pastor Doug: Now, does that answer your question?

Raymond: Yeah, that answers, somewhat, my question. I had one more. It's about Cain.

Pastor Doug: About what?

Raymond: I think you answered a question earlier about that; and my question is that it says that Cain knew his wife and she conceived and bear Enoch.

Pastor Doug: Yeah

Raymond: Now, if Cain was dispelled from the face of God and it speaks about that, then who was...

Pastor Doug: Who was his wife? Where did she come from?

Raymond: Well?

Pastor Doug: That's a good question.

Raymond: I mean--I mean if I - - [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: I'll tell you, if you look--I'm rushing because we're going to have a break here and I don't want to cut you off. If you look in Genesis chapter 5, it tells us not only did Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel and Seth, they had sons and daughters. It usually mentions just the first one or three.

It tells us that Cain, obviously, took one of his sisters when he went to the land of Nod and built a city when he went east. I know that sounds strange for us, but Abraham married his step-sister, Sarai; and Jacob married his cousin. It wasn't considered inappropriate to marry your sister until you get to the time of Moses.

Well, I think we're going to take a break with a couple of announcements to allow our affiliates to identify themselves and also, we've got some important things to share that you'll be seeing in a moment. But before we go to the break, I also want to remind you, friends, not only can you go to the Amazing Facts' website, and it's just like it sounds, AmazingFacts.com, or AmazingFacts.org, but there's a Bible Universe website.

You just type in BibleUniverse.com. There's a free series of Bible studies you can take right there online that will give you a very clear, deep understanding of Bible prophecy. So while we take a break, you might log on and check it out. We'll be right back.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Doug: Welcome back friends. For anyone who may have just tuned in this is Bible Answers Live, which is an international, interactive Bible study. We're on about a hundred and--oh, I don't know. How many stations Pastor Dick in North America?

Pastor Dick: Oh, I think it's 160 maybe?

Pastor Doug: 160 stations in North America, not counting a number in Europe and the Internet around the world - -

Pastor Dick: Right, right. Radio 74.

Pastor Doug: That's right. If you have a Bible question, just call 1-800-GOD-SAYS. It looks like we have one or two lines still open.

Pastor Dick: That's right.

Pastor Doug: 1-800-463-7297. What's next Pastor Dick?

Pastor Dick: Well we want to go to the phones in a minute, but first we want to talk about something that's coming up in just about a week and a half or so in Fort Worth, Texas. I understand you're on your way to Fort Worth. Tell us what's going on.

Pastor Doug: I am. I'm heading back to Fort Worth. We're going to be broadcasting a special series of meetings called 05Revive, Drawing Near. It is a special revival series in the theme of the old fashioned revivals where we encourage people to come for personal growth. If they know somebody that may be wandering from the Lord or - -

Pastor Dick: Amen!

Pastor Doug: - - someone wants to find their love again, this is a meeting for Christians from any persuasion. You can watch on the Internet, just 05Revive.com, or, and that's, of course, the number 05 Revive; or it'll be on 3ABN, it'll be on the Hope Channel, and it's beginning this Friday night actually, just a few days away. Friday night, and we go for 10 meetings in a row, every night.

If you'd like the schedule information or somewhere in your area where you can attend, just go to 05Revive.com and you'll find that information.

Pastor Dick: Praise the Lord. Sounds like an exciting time!

Pastor Doug: Yes. Be praying for me.

Pastor Dick: We will do that. Let's go first to Yakima, Washington. We want to talk with Tony who's listening on KSOH. Hi Tony.

Tony: Hello there

Pastor Dick: And your question please?

Tony: I wanted to ask, Luke 23, verse 34, who the Lord Jesus was talking about when He said that?

Pastor Doug: "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they do." Who was He addressing?

Tony: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Well, I think He's principally addressing those involved in His crucifixion that didn't know what was going on. No doubt, there were Roman soldiers and slaves involved in the actual, grisly business of crucifixion that were just carrying out orders. And Jesus, thinking about that someday they might come to find out who He was, someday, in the Judgment, they'll stand before Him; and in advance Christ was saying, "Father, they don't know what they're doing."

Some of the religious leaders did know what they were doing because they even paid the Roman soldiers to lie and say He didn't really rise. But you know, even beyond that, Tony, I think that the Lord is offering that forgiveness for all those who lived in our age.

Pastor Dick: Amen

Pastor Doug: We are responsible for the death of Christ, but we did not know what we were doing. Many people who first learn of Jesus and accept Him didn't realize that their sins cost the life of God's own Son. So, does that help answer that question a little?

Tony: Yeah. I was--I guess what I was, sort of, curious about was whether or not we Gentiles, as well as the Jews, are just as responsible for what happened to Him, not one group more than the other, you know what I mean?

Pastor Doug: Well, generally speaking, the Gentiles and Jews are equally responsible. There were individuals--and Christ identifies them--such as Judas, one of His own apostles, and some of the religious leaders, who did know what they were doing. And even Christ said to Pilate, "The one who delivered Me to you is more guilty than you are."

Pilate is waking up and he has another prisoner to try. He doesn't know what the background is until his wife brings him a letter.

Tony: Okay, thank you very much.

Pastor Doug: Alright, thank you. Good point.

Pastor Dick: Tony, we appreciate the call. Thank you very much. Let's go next to Long Island. We want to talk with Hector who's listening on WMCA. Welcome Hector.

Hector: Yes, good evening

Pastor Doug: Good evening

Hector: My question is in the book of Chronicles. It records about a king that came to power when he was [call cuts off]

Pastor Dick: Just a minute. Hector are you still there?

Hector: Yes, go ahead.

Pastor Dick: I'm sorry. We dropped you off the air for a moment there. Would you repeat your question?

Hector: Okay. My question goes back to the book of Chronicles where it speaks about and records a king, I think it was Jehoiachin, that came to power when he was 18 years of age.

Pastor Doug: Yes

Hector: And then in another point in the Bible which I don't recall, it says that he came to power when he was eight years old; and I wanted to know if you know why the discrepancy of years, one says 18, the other one says eight?

Pastor Doug: Well, that might be one of the places--let me see here. That's Jehoiachin was eight years old when he became king.

Tony: Could be, yeah.

Pastor Doug: Is this the one you're talking about?

Tony: Yes

Pastor Doug: And then you go to 1st Kings 14 - -

Tony: Okay

Pastor Doug: No, I guess it isn't 1st Kings. I thought that I had the right cross-reference there.

Tony: Okay

Pastor Doug: Hang on a second. Jehoiachin was eight years old--yeah, and then it says in 2nd Kings 24, verse 8, Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign.

Tony: That's right. That's my foundation in the Bible [cross talk]

Pastor Doug: Yeah, it's probably simply a typographical error. Keep in mind, they wrote the Bible by hand back then. In my notes I'm looking at, I've got notes here in my Bible, it says he couldn't have been. This must be a mistake because his father had only reigned three months. In other words, he couldn't have been old enough to reign.

Tony: Okay

Pastor Doug: And he's carried off at 18. So it's a typographical error that the King James' translators either chose to duplicate it, or it was just incorporated into the English translation. I don't know how it reads in other languages.

Tony: Okay

Pastor Doug: But I wouldn't let that joggle your faith.

Tony: Well, what it is, is if you use, like 2nd Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is good for" - -

Pastor Doug: All Scripture is, but the scribes that copy it - -

Tony: Then what do we do with this one?

Pastor Doug: Well, I'll tell you. Let's suppose that I do a translation of the Bible and in my translation process I make an error. There's no problem with Scripture. There's a problem with my translation. And so all you've got here is a problem with the manuscript that was translated. There's no problem with the Word of God's faithfulness. You see what I'm saying?

Tony: Yes. It's not with my faith. It's just that we have a foundation; and when somebody tries to, you know, (unintelligible) the Bible and it's already being attacked, and - -

Pastor Doug: I'll tell you what, you know what? Let me try something here. You've got me thinking. I'm going to do something here. Hang on a second. Alright, I did it, and I was correct. If you go to the New International Version that I normally don't use, - -

Tony: Okay

Pastor Doug: - - they use the correct manuscript; 2nd Chronicles 36:9 in the King James it says, "eight years old;" 2nd Chronicles 36:9 in the NIV says "eighteen." They corrected it, see what I'm saying? It was a typographical error. So a number of the other translations recognize that this was simply a publishing error and they corrected it.

Let me give you an example. It's almost a sad story, but there was once a bible printed called the Wicked bible. An English Bible printer who was commissioned by the king printed the Bible. When he printed the Seventh Commandment, he left out one word. The word is "not." Instead of saying, "Thou shalt not commit adultery," this bible said, "Thou shalt commit adultery."

Tony: Okay

Pastor Doug: Now, did that change the Word of God, or was it a problem with the printer?

Tony: I see what you're saying.

Pastor Doug: So that's all you're looking at here, is this discrepancy between 2nd Chronicles and Kings.

Pastor Dick: Pastor Doug, another example for Hector is in the British Library in London there is a manuscript of the Bible that is one of the early manuscripts and it's under glass; and there is no punctuation. There are no periods, no commas, no paragraphs.

Pastor Doug: All runs together.

Pastor Dick: Everything runs together in the Greek and in the Hebrew as well. It's quite possible that one of the scribes just looked at the one in front of the eight and thought it was another mark and just left it out, or something like that.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Just like in our language. It's a very small mark on a piece of paper that would make that.

Pastor Dick: Yeah

Tony: So, I go back to the Greek Pastor. Let's say I'll go back to the Greek. I'll find it in both the same?

Pastor Doug: Well the problem is that the Old Testament, if you're going to look at the Greek, the Old Testament is in Hebrew.

Tony: Okay

Pastor Doug: So you need to look at the Septuagint, - -

Pastor Dick: Right

Pastor Doug: - - is the Greek version, or the Hebrew.

Pastor Dick: Right, right

Pastor Doug: But hopefully that helps. You can trust the Word of God. If that's the only thing you can find wrong with the Word of God, is that one digit, then hey, my faith is reinforced.

Pastor Dick: Yeah, praise the Lord. That's right. Hector, we appreciate the call. Thank you. Let's go next, Pastor Doug, to uh, we'll stay in Long Island and talk with James who's listening on WMCA. James, welcome to the program.

James: Yeah hi. How's it going sir? I'm out here at my security job. I recently lost my job in (unintelligible) public school system because folks thought I was indoctrinating Christianity. So uh, here I am hearing you guys by God's providence.

Pastor Doug: Now you're a security guard James?

James: Well I'm a security guard now. I start (unintelligible) - -

Pastor Doug: Well hey now, don't fell bad. I was a security guard in Boston years ago and I'd listen to the radio at night. So I know exactly how you feel.

James: Oh no, I thank Jehovah Jireh for all He provides for me and I have a job lined up out in Iowa pretty soon where I'm getting married. I'll be teaching out there, uh, you know - -

Pastor Doug: Well, what's your question tonight? I don't want you to run out of time.

James: Oh no, no, not at all. You tell me in your own words, free will or predestination, because the Bible does teach both. What's your take on it?

Pastor Doug: Well, of course, I believe that I believe what the Scriptures say, which is that we have a choice to make. The Bible tells us, "Choose ye who you will serve."

James: Right

Pastor Doug: And Jesus invites all who will, "Whosoever will," that means you get to make a choice; if you will, take the water of life. Christ invites people to follow and they make a decision. If we don't have free will, then that means that God made Judas betray Him; and that makes God an accomplice in His own Son's murder.

So, I have real problems with the idea of predestination, that we don't have freedom. Does God know everything that's going to happen? Yes. Does He know who's going to be saved? Yes. Does He make them? No. God allows us freedom to choose.

James: You know, I want to tell you, I agree 100% on that and I go to very (unintelligible) pastors. I mean, I've been saved now for three and a half years. There's a book I'm finishing up right now. And I'm just sharing with people that uh, well, the Bible does teach that Christ even says via Jehovah the Father, as He was down here on the earth, okay? And He, in fact, chose me, James, "and James, you didn't choose me on the one hand." Then you have pastors also like Romans 9:15 through 21; but yet, in Romans 9:22 and other texts--it's very clear though--let's never say that God actually caused people to go to hell.

Pastor Doug: That's right

James: But that people, in fact, are going to choose religion or their sin over hell--over Christ, pardon me.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well you know how I deal with that is when I got my eye set on my wife, I chose her; but then she had to choose me.

Pastor Dick: Yeah [chuckles]. Good point.

Pastor Doug: And so, God has chosen us, but we must respond to His choice.

Pastor Dick: Amen

Pastor Doug: That's why He says, "Many are called, but few are chosen."

Pastor Dick: Amen

Pastor Doug: Few choose to respond to His call in other words.

Pastor Dick: Amen, amen. James, thanks for call.

Pastor Doug: Hopefully that helps James.

Pastor Dick: We really appreciate your call. We'll go next to um, oh let's talk with Amanda in Dallas, Texas, who's listening on KSKY. Hi Amanda.

Amanda: Hello

Pastor Dick: And your question please?

Amanda: I was thinking about why God, when He expelled Satan, or Lucifer and the angels, why did He put him on earth here with us? I don't know who was first, the humans or Satan. But it seems that He could have put him on another world - -

Pastor Doug: Alright, good question.

Amanda: - - and not have us be so--caused all the pain that has happened because of him.

Pastor Doug: Well, let me give you the chronology and I think that will help. You find that in Revelation chapter 12, the war in heaven between Michael and the dragon, and Satan is cast to the earth. At the time of that war, Adam and Eve had already fallen. They had already chosen to listen to Lucifer at that point.

So because our first parents had chosen to believe the devil rather than God, God said don't eat the forbidden fruit and Adam and Eve did, the devil really already had a foothold here. So when Satan is cast to the earth, it's not the first time Satan had been here. He's being restricted to the earth.

Amanda: Oh. So he had already power to control us then, or - -

Pastor Doug: Well, yeah. He doesn't have total control, but he certainly had power to manipulate and influence. That's why even Jesus calls the devil the "prince of this world." Paul says whoever you obey, that's whose servants you are. And when Adam and Eve chose to obey Satan instead of Christ, when God said don't eat the forbidden fruit, they surrendered their allegiance to the devil and their dominion to the devil.

Amanda: No. I understand that, but seems like it would have prevented a lot of pain and suffering if He had not allowed Satan to influence us.

Pastor Doug: Well, basically, He restricted the devil to this planet because the devil had found an audience here that would believe him. So it was not really a choice that God made as much as humanity made.

What happens there in Revelation 12 when it says Satan is cast to the earth, he could no longer storm the gates of heaven at that point.

Amanda: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And even Jesus said, "I saw Satan fall like lightning" in the New Testament. So yeah, it would be a lot better if the devil wasn't here.

Amanda: Oh, it's like throwing sharks in with a pool of minnows.

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Well I know it seems that way, but really what happened is the minnows invited the sharks and that's what caused the problem. We would have been safe and secure forever on this planet if we had trusted God.

Amanda: I see.

Pastor Doug: The first question in the Bible is when Satan questions God's Word, "Hath God said....?" Once man began to doubt God's Word that's where all our trouble came from.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Amanda: Oh yes, yes.

Pastor Doug: Hey you know, you would really enjoy our lesson that we're offering Amanda. It explains the very question you're asking. We'll send it to you free. It's called "Did God Create the Devil?" Would you like that?

Amanda: Okay, yes.

Pastor Dick: Amanda, I'm going to ask you to write down a phone number. It's 1-800-835-6747. That's an 800 number so the call is free and the lesson is free as well. It's called "Did God Create the Devil?" If you'll ask for that, if you'll call that number and ask for that, they'll send it out to you, 1-800-835-6747, and thanks for the call Amanda. To Encinitas, California, Pastor Doug, we want to talk with Guy who's listening on KTIE. Welcome Guy.

Guy: [Call is garbled] Hello

Pastor Doug: Hi. Get real close to your phone. We can barely hear you.

Guy: [Call is garbled] Okay. I'll speak up a little bit too.

Pastor Doug: Guy, we can't hear you to well. Are you on a cordless phone?

Guy: Yes I am.

Pastor Dick: Ah, there you go

Pastor Doug: Oh, sounds like your battery was going out. Alright, that's better.

Guy: Okay

Pastor Doug: Go ahead, try it again.

Guy: Alright. Well, I'm calling in behalf of my children who are ages nine and a half and 11. Their question is [call cuts off]

Pastor Dick: Guy, we just lost you. You just dropped off. Are you there?

Guy: Yeah, I'm here. I'm sorry.

Pastor Doug: Okay, try it again.

Guy: Okay

Pastor Doug: And their question is?

Guy: Their question is they want to know why church has to be so stuffy and conservative when we have verses in the Bible like Psalm 149, verse 3 and Psalm 150, verse 4, talking about dancing and using the tambourine. Is there any practical application for these verses in our day, or does church have to be restricted to just the basic hymns and the conservative worship that we're used to?

Pastor Doug: Alright. Well let me read this, Psalm 149, verse 3. "Let them praise his name with the dance: and let them sing praises to him with the timbrel and the harp." And again, if you read Psalm 150, it's more of praising the Lord with the lute, and the trumpet, and the harp, and the dance, and stringed instruments, and flutes.

There are a series of praise hymns, or songs, at the end of Psalms that were victory songs that the Israelites sang coming back from battle. They were songs of great exuberance and dancing and praising. It's the kind of thing that David did when they brought the Ark up to Jerusalem. These were not the typical Sabbath worship Psalms. These were the victory over the enemy.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: For instance, when David came back from defeating the Philistines, the women came out with timbrels and dance. When the children of Israel had victory over the Egyptians, Miriam lead them with timbrels and dance. When Jephthah came back from his victory over the Midianites, his daughter came out with dancing and timbrels. So these Psalms are in keeping with that theme, this last series of Psalms. This is not typically what they did for the worship service on Sabbath, see what I'm saying?

Guy: Yes

Pastor Doug: Now, you've asked another question so I just want to make it clear. These Psalms I would never apply to a Sabbath morning worship service. But Sabbath does not need to be stuffy and there's no Scripture that says you can only sing the hymns that are in the hymnal.

Matter of fact, in the Psalms we are commanded to sing to the Lord a new song. We should be always learning new songs; and I would guess that virtually every song in your church hymnal--I'm not sure what church you go to--but I would guess every song in your hymnal within the last 500 years at one point was a new song.

Guy: Uh-huh

Pastor Doug: Most of them, they get updated every couple hundred years. So songs that we're singing as new songs now, if the world lasts another 50 years, they'll be old songs.

Pastor Dick: Um-hmm

Guy: Right

Pastor Doug: And so there's nothing wrong with singing new songs. There's nothing wrong with having joy even in the church. I would stop short of the banging the drums and the dancing because a lot of churches are doing that, and these Psalms don't apply to that. Some of the church services are turning into a hootenanny; and we don't go to church to gyrate. We go to church to worship, you know what I'm saying?

Guy: Yeah, I understand, but um, you know, I understand also that there are differences between, you know, sexually suggestive dances and dances that praise the Lord. So is there a - -

Pastor Doug: Well I agree - -

Guy: - - practical application for, maybe dances of praise to God in our modern, Christian worship?

Pastor Doug: Well, the dances that you find that I've just cited here in Psalm 149, 150, and the examples I quoted, were dances of praise and exuberance that were done as victory. For one thing, you'll never see the men dancing with the women. The women usually danced and they went out. David danced by himself. There's no example of the priests ever dancing in the sanctuary.

Guy: Right

Pastor Doug: But again, it's a different question and I don't want people to think my church isn't stuffy, I don't think. I don't want people to think that a church service has to be dry and stuffy. I think you can have joy and exuberance without, like I said, gyrating physically and beating a drum.

Guy: Okay

Pastor Dick: Some of the traditional hymnals that have been published have a companion book that would be very helpful, Guy. I think if you could go to a Christian bookstore and research, or research online, a companion book to the hymns which would give you some of the historical background to some of the hymns that are in the hymnals, it might be - -

Pastor Doug: Those are inspiring.

Pastor Dick: They are really inspiring.

Pastor Doug: Get the story behind the hymns and the hymn writers.

Pastor Dick: Exactly, exactly, yeah.

Pastor Doug: It kind of gives them new life.

Pastor Dick: Yes, uh-huh

Guy: Okay. Well thank you for answering my question.

Pastor Dick: Okay

Pastor Doug: Good

Pastor Dick: We appreciate the call. Thank you very much Guy. Let's go next, Pastor Doug, to New York. Evelyn is listening on WMCA. Welcome Evelyn.

Evelyn: Hi

Pastor Doug: Hi

Pastor Dick: And your question please?

Evelyn: Yes. My question is if it's okay to go to a Sabbath-keeping church if I'm a new-born Christian?

Pastor Doug: Is it okay to go to a Sabbath-keeping church if you're a new-born Christian? Well I guess I would wonder why not. Why would you ask that question? Are you thinking that there might be something wrong?

Evelyn: Yeah

Pastor Doug: Well, if you're a new-born Christian, the thing to do is follow Jesus, right?

Evelyn: Right

Pastor Doug: And what was Jesus' example? The Bible says that, "As his custom was," Mark chapter 2 (Luke chapter 4), "he went to church on the Sabbath day." So if you're a new-born Christian and a Christian is a follower of Christ, there's certainly nothing wrong, and everything right, with following the example of Jesus and worshiping God on His holy day.

Evelyn: On Saturday?

Pastor Doug: Yeah. Our friends listening know that on this program we're a biblically accurate program. And biblically, the seventh day is the Sabbath. There is no question about that.

Evelyn: Um-hmm

Pastor Doug: And we believe that that has never been altered or abrogated. It's still in force. So absolutely, the Bible calls it a blessed day. He blessed the day and so if you want that blessing, especially if you're a born-again Christian, by all means. It's for everybody. The Bible says the Sabbath is made for all people. Okay?

Evelyn: Um, I'm not clear with that.

Pastor Doug: I'll tell you what, would you like us to send you some literature for free on that subject?

Evelyn: Yes, please.

Pastor Doug: Alright. Pastor Dick is going to give you a phone number. We've got a lesson that deals specifically with the subject of the Sabbath truth we'll be happy to share with you. If you'd like a copy of that, we'll be delighted to send it to you.

Pastor Dick: Evelyn, I want you to get a pencil or a pen and write this phone number down. It's 1-800-835-6747.

Pastor Doug: And it's called "The Lost Day of History."

Evelyn: The what?

Pastor Doug: "The Lost Day of History"

Evelyn: "The Lost Day of History"

Pastor Doug: Yes

Pastor Dick: If you'll call that number and ask for that, they'll send it to you, and it will help to answer your question.

Pastor Doug: Anybody out there, if you've got questions on this, it is one of the most frequently asked questions on any Bible-question program. It is about the Sabbath truth. A lot of Christians are re-discovering this. We'll send that to you. It's actually a new study guide.

Pastor Dick: Yes

Pastor Doug: "The Lost Day of History"

Pastor Dick: 1-800-835-6747. Thanks for the call Evelyn. Pastor Doug, we're just about out of time for the program this evening. We have about a minute and forty seconds or so. Tell us more about Fort Worth just one last time before we go off the air.

Pastor Doug: Thank you. I appreciate your doing this. This is my last chance on our program to mention this again. We're going to have what we hope will be a historic program called 05Revive; 05Revive.com if you want to go to the website.

The program is called Drawing Near. The whole series of revival meetings is based on the promise in James, "If we draw near to God, He will draw near to us." And so I would ask anybody listening, if you're a Christian, would you like to be nearer to God?

Pastor Dick: Amen

Pastor Doug: Then you have a chance. Join us for this series and we will, together, draw near to God and claim the promise that He will draw near to us. It's something that you can gather around your television and watch it via satellite. It'll be on 3ABN, Hope Channel, watch it on the Internet. If you go to the website, there are churches hosting the event.

A thousand churches in North America are going to be hosting this. If you're living by any major city, no question there's a church in your area. Find out how you can go and join other Christian brothers and sisters for this one-week series of meetings on revival, rediscovering your relationship with Jesus.

Oh, listening friends, I think you can tell from the music that is chasing us, we're about to conclude this program. I hope you will keep Pastor Doug and Pastor Dick in prayer, - -

Pastor Dick: Amen, amen

Pastor Doug: - - especially with the series coming up. Keep in mind also, it is a totally faith-based ministry. Everything we do we don't get any denominational or corporate support, but

we are supported by you who are listening. If you'd like to be one of our team at Amazing Facts, then drop us a line. Let us know if the program has been a blessing for you.

And again, don't forget to take advantage of all the resources at the Amazing Facts' website. God bless you.

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