False Prophecies

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

Pastor Batchelor: You heard the number, but I'm going to give it to you again because we have lines open. One more time, 1-800-GOD SAYS. If you'd like to participate in this live, international, interactive Bible study, then pick up your phone right now with your Bible question. That's 1-800-463-7297, which will bring you into Bible Answers Live. Good evening friends. My name is Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And my name is Jëan Ross. Good evening listening friends and Pastor Doug. Let's begin the program with prayer. Father, once again as we start this program, we want to invite your Presence to be with us. We recognize the Bible is Your book. We need Your leading in order to understand it correctly. Be with those who are listening wherever they might be. Be with us here in the studio. In Jesus' name, amen.

Pastor Batchelor: Amen.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program by talking about a prophecy that had something to do with the downfall of an empire. What empire was that, and what was the prophecy?

Pastor Batchelor: Yes, it's a very interesting bit of history, how the Aztec nation--and there's great debate on how many--but a minimum of two million, maybe as many as four million people in the nation, were basically subdued by an army of conquistadors with just under 600. Of course, that was during the time of Cortez when he entered what is now Mexico City; and they did eventually engage some of the other tribes that were warring with the Aztecs, but it's still a phenomenal story.

The reason that they were able to get into the heart of the capitol of this great nation--I mean they had the incredible pyramids of the Aztecs, and they obviously had some great sophistication--is because, they, in their religion, they were polytheistic; but they had these prophecies about this god named, Quetzalcoatl, who was going to come from across the ocean on the clouds, this fair-skinned, bearded god.

And when Cortez came marching in, when they were on their horses--they had never seen horses with their glittering armor and their canons--they just were in awe, and they thought this was either Quetzalcoatl, or one of his representatives. Through that and their intrigue,

they were able to basically get right into the heart of that empire and eventually overthrow it, because they had a false prophecy that basically weakened them.

It's not the first time the devil has used false prophecy to subdue the power of a people. And of course friends, I haven't said it yet; I'm always am reluctant to date a program, but this is our first broadcast in 2012. I want to wish you a blessed new year. But 2012, some of you have recognized that a lot of people are attributing some Mayan prophecies to this year, and the end of the world. There have been books written and movies made and quite a bit of a stir about a Mayan calendar that says that December 21st, this is the last year.

Then some take the very confusing prophecies of Nostradamus. He just gives a little word there in these verses, and they're trying to also pin that to this year. And so, people are wondering if this is the year. They're wondering if this is the year of a secret rapture. How will the Lord come? Is it going to be the end of the world? People are really starting to tune into prophecy.

We just came off the end of 2011 when, at least one ministry that got a lot of visibility, proclaimed the end of the world, both May 21st and October 21st. And I think that the reason this is getting a little more attention right now, Pastor Ross, is because people look at the world around us and they see tremendous problems with the economies of the world; the problems with natural disasters, such as the tsunamis and the earthquakes; and they're just wondering how much longer the world can last.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hum

Pastor Batchelor: Well there are prophecies in the Bible that tell us what the signs are of Jesus' coming. But do you know, many Christians are believing a false prophecy about the second coming. In Matthew 24, Jesus warned that the devil would have false Christs and false prophets; and obviously, false prophets give false prophecies. And many Christians have embraced some false prophecies regarding the second coming of Jesus.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Um-hum

Pastor Batchelor: And Jesus said this would happen. That, in itself, is a sign. So, if you'd like to know more about this, we have a free offer that talks about what the Bible does and does not say regarding prophecies of the second coming. And you'll enjoy this; it's an easy read and I think you'll find it very informative.

Pastor Jëan Ross: It is a book dealing with signs of the second coming. It's entitled, "Anything But Secret." "Anything But Secret." If you'd call our resource line and ask for the book, we'll be happy to send it to you. The number is 1-800-835-6747. Again, that number is 1-800-835-6747. That is the resource line, and the book we're offering tonight, "Anything But Secret", talking about the second coming of Jesus. Well Pastor Doug, I think we're ready to go to the phone lines. We have Samantha who is listening from Washington. Samantha, welcome to the program.

Samantha: Hello!

Pastor Batchelor: Hi, good evening. Welcome, thanks for calling.

Samantha: Thank you. My question is, I know some people who have given up on the idea of a loving God, and that the Bible is not valid because of some of the--or all of the--gory stories in the Old Testament. And I was just wondering how I would explain to them that God is loving, and the Bible is the inspired word of God, despite these stories?

Pastor Batchelor: Well, the Bible tells us what the history is. Whether you're looking in the Bible or you're looking in the history of the last century, we can see that there's a lot of violence, and crime, and bloodshed, and gangs, and war in the world today; so the Bible gives an accurate history, but God is a God of love. I think people need to realize that, while He's a loving God, there's a war that is going on. It started in the universe. And, you read in Revelation, a war began in heaven; and it has now been, basically, relocated to this planet. So the forces of good and evil are fighting it out here on earth.

If anyone wants to know what God is like, if you look at the cross of Jesus, you can see Jesus saying, "Father, forgive them," and the devil inspires the mob to say crucify an innocent man. You can see at the cross God's power of love and the devil's love for power. And so, whenever someone wants to know what is God like, He is the God of the Bible, a loving God. Jesus said, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." Look at how patient, and kind, and loving, and merciful Jesus was, even washing the feet of the one who was going to betray Him, and then saying, "Father, forgive them" when they crucified Him.

So yeah, there was violence at the cross, but Jesus wasn't the source of that.

Samantha: Um-hum

Pastor Batchelor: You know what I mean?

Samantha: Yes.

Pastor Batchelor: God is a loving God. The Bible does give an accurate history of some of the wars that have taken place; and there are times God even sent His people into battle to defend their freedom to worship Him. Of course in America, we're very thankful for our soldiers that preserve our freedom to worship God.

Samantha: Um-hum

Pastor Batchelor: But I hope that helps a little bit, Samantha. We have a lesson that really addresses the heart of what you're asking we'll send you for free. And it's called, "Did God Create a Devil?" "Did God Create a Devil?" It talks about the good God and people's idea that He's a vengeful God.

Pastor Jëan Ross: To receive that free lesson Samantha, or anyone listening, give us a call again on our resource line. That's 1-800-835-6747, 1-800-835-6747, and the offer is, "Did

God Create a Devil?" and that is an Amazing Facts study guide. It's one of a series of study guides. You'll find it very helpful. "Did God Create a Devil?" is the title. We have David who is listening from Maryland. David, welcome to the program.

David: Hi, yes. Thank you for having me.

Pastor Batchelor: Absolutely. And your question?

David: My question tonight is concerning the Sabbath. I heard about the Bible Sabbath and I'm convicted in believing the Bible Sabbath. I'm currently attending a church who keeps the Sabbath, but my question tonight is, I'm curious, not only what the Bible says, but what your thoughts are. If you have a church who's just really desperate for the Holy Spirit, really want the Holy Spirit to come, and is keeping the Sabbath, but they may be paying a pianist to come into the church who's not a member from the offerings coming from the church. I just want to know what does the Bible say about that and would that prohibit the church from having the Holy Spirit really poured out if knowingly the church is breaking the Sabbath by having somebody work for them, so to speak?

Pastor Batchelor: Well, of course, it's not ideal. The ideal would be to have a member, and to have a member that could volunteer is the best thing; but some churches, obviously, have music ministers, and music is certainly a ministry. There's plenty of Bible support for musicians that are, I guess you could say, on salary that were in the temple. Their job was to sing and to praise the Lord with voice or with instruments, and they were among the Levites and they were paid of tithe.

And so, there's nothing wrong with a person who is being employed. Some have the gift of preaching the word, and some have the gift of singing the word or playing it with instruments. But music is an integral part of worship; and if you're in a situation where, for whatever reason, they just don't have any local talent and someone is paid to come in and do that, it's not ideal, but I think there's Bible precedent for that.

One thought, and it may not be the best example, Pastor Ross, that pops into my mind, but you can read in the book of Nehemiah, and I can't remember if it's Nehemiah 13 or 9--Pastor Ross might do a search for me while I'm talking about it--where he said he was going to have his guards arrest the ones that were coming to buy and sell outside the gates. So Nehemiah had guards employed on the Sabbath. He had a security force, because he said that he was going to use them to arrest those who were coming on the Sabbath to buy and sell.

And then you can read in 2 Kings, chapter 11 when King Joash was being coronated, it said as the Sabbath began, they had the soldiers and they had the musicians that were in the temple. So, here there were soldiers on duty in the temple and throughout the course of Israel's history, their neighbors all knew they kept the Sabbath, but the military did not all leave their posts and the watchmen did not all leave their posts on the Sabbath. It was necessary to preserve the ability for people to continue worshiping.

I just came back from a Christian conference that was a wonderful youth conference and they met through the Sabbath. They had people there that were involved in being able to broadcast the program or do the audio. When you rent a convention center--we've faced this before--you go somewhere and on Sabbath sometimes they've got union people, and the only way you can use that convention center to have a Christian meeting is you have to have their security people on hand, or their audio people.

It's not ideal, but I think the Lord understands in order to provide worship, uh hospitals do that, you know what I mean? So I think the ideal is to have the members. Did you find that?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yes, it's in Nehemiah chapter 7. You can read about, well that's a whole section there--

Pastor Batchelor: --yeah the whole story is there.

Pastor Jëan Ross: --that talks about those who were camping outside the gates to buy and sell as soon as they could, and that was disrupting the whole focus of the Sabbath. Yup.

Pastor Batchelor: Then Nehemiah says if they came back, he's going to send his bodyguard--

Pastor Jëan Ross: to take them away, yeah.

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah, so they had guards in the temple. Some people, in other words, did certain necessary services. But if a person is not of the same faith, that creates a whole different question really, you know what I'm saying?

David: Yeah, and that's basically what it would be. It would be a non-member, who's maybe a professional at playing the piano, coming in on the Sabbath and, you know, getting paid from the offerings from the church, so the church knowingly, you know, paying him for his services on the Sabbath. It's just really kind of been grieving me lately about that, whether I should continue to even pay offering to the church knowing that a portion of that is going--

Pastor Batchelor: You know, I don't want to tell you to do something other than what the Holy Spirit is telling you, because I'm certainly not the Holy Spirit; but personally, I would not die on that mountain. That's one of those areas that I think is difficult. If you've got a Christian hospital and they have a cafeteria--and on the Sabbath, obviously, people need to eat--do you only employ people that are Christians to prepare the food to feed the people sick in the hospital, if there's no one else available?

So, you can ask a lot of questions like that. I wouldn't withdraw support from your local church over something like that. Though I agree with you, it's not ideal. And I think the best thing to do is just be praying you could find somebody; and in the meantime, if that person is making it possible for everyone else to worship, then I think that God understands that. Thank you very much, David.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Alright. We've got Robert who is listening from New York. Robert, welcome to the program.

Robert: Hi, good evening Pastor Ross and Pastor Doug.

Pastor Batchelor and Pastor Ross: Good evening!

Robert: Yes, and I just want to take this opportunity to wish you all and your family and radio ministry continued blessings for 2012 and beyond.

Pastor Batchelor: Well thank you and blessings on you too.

Robert: Okay. My question is on 1 Corinthians chapter 6, verse 9. Paul was speaking to the congregation; and the special parts that I want to ask you about is, he talks about a group of people who will not inherit the Kingdom of God. And to be specific, Paul mentioned, "effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind." Could you explain those two groups of people?

Pastor Batchelor: Well, if you read in the New King James Version, 1 Corinthians 6:9, it's really specific. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revelers, nor extortioners, will inherit the Kingdom of God."

And I want to read the next verse also: "And such were some of you." Paul is writing to the Corinthians. He says, "Some of you were these things..."

Robert: Yes

Pastor Batchelor: "...but now you are washed, you are sanctified, you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus." So, God's church is composed of people from every stripe and type of sordid background.

Robert: Absolutely.

Pastor Batchelor: But people who are practicing those things, they can't continue practicing those things, and enter the Kingdom of God. All sinners need to turn from their sin.

Robert: Right. You see this section that also talks about "nor effeminate"? I think I read something where the Greek version taught that they discovered effeminate men as those who wore, like, particle clothing?

Pastor Batchelor: Well yeah, that often goes with homosexuality. Of course, there are people who are, what do you call it, cross-dressers--

Robert: Right

Pastor Batchelor: that uh--I guess that works both ways. Now that's another passage, in--is it Deuteronomy 12? Let me see, is it 18 or 22, Pastor Ross, where it says, "A man shall not

wear that which pertaineth to a woman, and a woman will not wear that which pertaineth to a man, for all that do such are an abomination."

Robert: Okay.

Pastor Batchelor: And so, men and women are, obviously, different genders. God made them that way; and there should be distinction in their clothing and styles. I don't think Christians ought to be wrapping their arms around this whole unisex style. I think kids grow up a little bit confused when men don't walk and talk like men, and women likewise. So, you know, God made us different, and I think we should celebrate those differences instead of trying to erase them.

Robert: (Laughs) Um-hum, okay.

Pastor Batchelor: Anyway, I hope that helps a little bit, uh--

Robert: It helps a lot. Thank you very much. The New King James Version is a very good version to look at.

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah, that's got a good translation.

Robert: Yes

Pastor Batchelor: And there's a book I think we can offer you; I think we still carry it, by Gary Gibbs, and it's called, "Return to Sodom." It talks about what the Bible says about some of these issues of homosexuality and what we were just referring to.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Give us a call at 1-800-835-6747. That is the resource line. You can ask for the book, "Return to Sodom," and we'll send it out to you. It kind of also shows what the Bible has to say about society, in general, just before Jesus comes.

Pastor Batchelor: Um-hum.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We can see that as another sign to the soon coming of Christ. We have Emily who is listening from Ohio. Emily, welcome to the program.

Pastor Batchelor: Emily, you're on the air.

Emily: Hi Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross.

Pastor Batchelor and Pastor Ross: Hi!

Pastor Batchelor: Get real close to your phone.

Emily: Oh okay.

Pastor Batchelor: And your question?

Emily: Pastor Doug, your programs have been a real blessing to our family. I wanted to thank you for that.

Pastor Batchelor: Well thank you. Praise God!

Emily: My question Pastor, uh to both of you is, we're going to buy a DVD Bible, and we're wondering what translation would be accurate, but also easy to listen to?

Pastor Batchelor: Now when you say, "a DVD Bible," a DVD is usually a movie. Do you mean like a computerized Bible program, or?

Emily: I guess so. It's the DVD that has the Bible narrated

[cross talk]

Pastor Batchelor: Oh okay, so it is--

Pastor Jëan Ross: Audio Bible.

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah, yeah--okay, so you did mean DVD. You can buy a DVD with Bible software, which is different than watching the Bible being narrated. You know, now what I'm going to be telling you is a little bit subjective, as opposed to objective. I preach from the New King James Version. Pastor Ross, what do you?

Pastor Jëan Ross: Mostly the New King James, yeah.

Pastor Batchelor: New King James Version. It still has the beauty of the King James; and most people have memorized the King James. It probably had more impact on the English language than any piece of literature. So it doesn't mess you up for those who have memorized Scripture, and yet it has modernized some of the words, making it a little easier, and it's also very accurate.

Now that doesn't mean there are not good translations out there. But you're asking a very good question, Emily, because here we're still in the infancy of a new year. People are beginning Bible reading programs and having a new resolution on their personal devotions.

I'd say, find a version, whether it's the King James, New King James, New American Standard, there are a lot of good versions out there that is, hopefully, a translation, as opposed to a paraphrase, which is not always accurate for theology, though they're sometimes easy reading. And, get into a daily Bible reading program.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we have a book that you might find interesting, Emily. It's called, "The Ultimate Resource." It talks about the Bible and gives you a little bit of the background of the different Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, and different translations too. So, I think you'd find that very helpful. It's called, "The Ultimate Resource." And for anyone listening, you can ask for that book. Just call our resource line, 1-800-835-6747; and the

book, "The Ultimate Resource." We'll be happy to send that out. We have Kathy who is listening from Oregon. Kathy, welcome to the program.

Kathy: Hi

Pastor Batchelor: Hi

Kathy: How are you?

Pastor Batchelor: Doing well. How can we help you tonight?

Kathy: Okay. I've been doing some studying in the Bible; and I've been going to a church that teaches the pre-tribulation rapture. And I can't seem to find basis for it in the Scriptures.

Pastor Batchelor: Amen.

Kathy: So I could use some enlightenment on that. In fact, in 2 Thessalonians, chapter 2:1-3, part of that verse says, "For that day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed."

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah, I think it's really clear the tribulation happens before the rapture, the second coming, because Jesus says, "He that endures to the end will be saved." Endures what? Jesus says there will be a time of trouble such as there never has been. Well that's the great tribulation, the time of trouble such as there never has been. And Christ, all through Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Luke 17, He always puts this time of trouble just before the second coming, or what people call the rapture there.

And the book that we're offering tonight, especially deals with the verses that you're asking about Kathy.

Kathy: Okay.

Pastor Batchelor: And we'll send you a copy, if you want one in your hands, but you can read this at the Amazing Facts website for free tonight.

Kathy: Oh I don't have a computer.

Pastor Batchelor: Well, then we'll send you a copy of the book.

Kathy: Okay.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number to call, Kathy, is 1-800-835-6747, and the book again, is entitled, "Anything But Secret." "Anything But Secret" - and for anyone listening, this is a great resource. It also gives you a clear understanding of events that are to take place just before Jesus comes.

And we can see a lot of these events, Pastor Doug, being fulfilled in the world around us. As we look back on 2011, there were some cataclysmic events that took place. Earthquakes, tsunamis, wildfires in Australia, all signs that the coming of Christ is getting closer.

Pastor Batchelor: Absolutely.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Jackie who is listening from San Diego, California. Jackie, welcome to the program.

Jackie: Thank you! Good evening Pastors.

Pastor Batchelor and Pastor Ross: Good evening

Jackie: I have a friend that keeps the Saturday Sabbath and has joined in with the lunar Sabbath keepers. And their interpretation is, they count seven days from the new moon, and that's considered the Sabbath in their thinking. My question is, one of their verses that they use is Amos 8, verse 5.

Pastor Batchelor: Okay. Do you want me to read that to our listeners?

Jackie: Yes, please.

Pastor Batchelor: It's Amos 8:5, saying, "When will the new moon be passed, that we may sell grain again? and the Sabbath, that we may trade wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel large, falsifying the scales by deceit?" Well of course, Amos here, he's not really setting up a scale to measure the new moon or the Sabbath. He's talking about people who have the attitude. They kept the new moon as the Sabbath, and, of course, they kept the Sabbath as the Sabbath; and they were waiting for it to be over so they could do their buying and selling again.

It doesn't say when it came. It's not saying that the new moon and the Sabbath fell on the same day, or that one is measured by the other. They're actually are governed by two completely separate systems. The new moons are a lunar cycle; Sabbaths were the solar, based on the weekly cycle.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know also, it's interesting, if you go back and do a little research on the new moon, it was the first day of the month; and it was a day devoted to religious services. And apparently, part of the restrictions that the Jewish leadership had placed upon that day was there wasn't to be any buying or selling taking place.

Now that's not a Scriptural injunction; that was something that was given over time. When Jesus came, He said to the Jewish leadership, "In vain you worship Me, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men." So it appeared to those this was one of those traditions that, kind of, grew over time, and they began to observe the first day of the month as almost something like a Sabbath, and yet there's no Scriptural support for that.

Pastor Batchelor: And the first day of the month meaning the lunar month--

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right.

Pastor Batchelor: --which was governed by the moon. But the idea that the Sabbath is not part of the weekly cycle but it's governed by a lunar cycle--the people who are making this up uh--the whole Jewish nation kept it based on the weekly cycle, all the way from the inception of Israel when the manna came down from heaven; and you can date it all the way back to Genesis chapter 2.

It was on the seventh day. It started with creation, and it has gone 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7; it's the seven days of sequence. It's not governed by the moons. I've talked to people that are believing this and, to me, it's kind of convoluted logic. I hope that helps a little bit. We probably need to get some kind of resource on that.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we do have a study guide talking about the Sabbath. It doesn't go specifically into the first day of the month, but for anyone listening and you'd like to learn more about what the Bible says about the seventh-day Sabbath, the study guide is entitled, "The Lost Day of History," "The Lost Day of History." We'll send it to you for free if you'd call us at 1-800-835-6747. 1-800-835-6747, ask for the study guide, "The Lost Day of History" and we'll send that out to you.

Pastor Batchelor: You know Pastor Ross, we just also want to remind our friends that we have a website that has a lot of phenomenal information, and it's called bibleprophecytruth.com. If any of our friends out there want to better understand what is happening in the world today with Bible prophecy, let me just read some of the titles and subjects and charts you're going to find here: seven-year tribulation, Babylon, angels, mark of the beast, 666, everything else, bibleprophecytruth.com. You're listening to Bible Answers Live. Now we've got something exciting that's coming up in just a matter of a few days now.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right!

Pastor Batchelor: Less than a week uh, matter of fact, you and I are climbing on an airplane in a couple of days and heading back to Washington D.C. area, Maryland. And we'll be broadcasting a series we've been telling you about for, I guess, a few months now, called Reclaim Your Faith.

I think everybody listening knows someone who used to go to church that doesn't go anymore. This is an opportunity for you to invite them to your home, turn on Hope Channel. You can get it either through the satellite signals, or you can get it on DirecTV. Watch the program beginning Friday evening. It'll be the 13th through the 15th. It's going to be telling people about how to come back to Jesus if they've wandered away, and get a new beginning. We'll be back in a moment friends.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Pastor Batchelor: We do have a few lines open. If you'd like to participate in Bible Answers Live--oh, by the way, if you've joined us along the way, that's what you're listening to. This is Bible Answers Live. It's a live, international, interactive Bible study program; and you can call in with your questions. Free phone call! 1-800-463-7297 brings you into the studio. 1-800-463-7297 with your Bible questions. I'm Doug Batchelor.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And I'm Jëan Ross. Pastor Doug, just before the break, you mentioned faith reclaimed. This is the series taking place January 13 through 15. Let me just mention one thing about that with reference to our website. We have a website, faithreclaimed.com. And if any of our listeners know of someone, and I'm sure most of us do, somebody who used to attend church but they've drifted away, you go to the website, faithreclaimed.com, and you can actually send them an invite, an email invite, to participate in this program.

Pastor Doug, tell us a little more about what you're going to be talking about.

Pastor Batchelor: Well, I think there are probably three-quarters as many people that used to go to church that don't attend anymore, that actually are on the rolls, but still don't attend. That means for every 100 people that are going to a particular church in a community, you can see 400 people in that community that, at one time, went to that church, that don't attend anymore. It's a phenomenal number.

And we really need to do something. Jesus talked about our not only praying for the prodigal sons, but looking for these lost sheep. So this program is specifically designed to address the four principle reasons that people get distracted. That's one of the reasons. They get distracted with the busyness of life, or they get hurt, or they're worried that maybe someone in the church didn't treat them right, or it's a clique, or there's some hypocrisy, all the wrong reasons to stop being part of the body of Christ.

So, we'll be addressing those things, and talking about how they can come back and get a new beginning with the Lord. If you know someone, friend, coworker, family member, that once went to church but has kind of lost their connection with Jesus and His church, encourage them to tune in to this program, this broadcast. It'll be live from the nation's capitol. It's called, Reclaim Your Faith. The website is called faithreclaimed.com.

You'll find more information there. We're starting 7:00 p.m., Eastern. I think there's a re-broadcast on the Hope Church Channel at 7:00 p.m., Pacific.

Pastor Jëan Ross: 7:30. 7:30 we go live.

Pastor Batchelor: Ah, thank you. Glad you corrected me, 7:30. It's a hour and a half program.

Pastor Jëan Ross: And for people who have DirecTV, it's channel 368.

Pastor Batchelor: Okay, there's the number.

Pastor Jëan Ross: 368. Alright. We have somebody who's calling in from a long way away. We have Darnell who is listening in South Korea. Darnell, welcome to the program.

Darnell: Hi, yes, thank you.

Pastor Batchelor: You're welcome. Thanks for calling. And your question?

Darnell: My question is in regards to baptism, or re-baptism. When is it appropriate to be re-baptized?

Pastor Batchelor: Good question. There are three reasons a person might be re-baptized, according to the Bible. One is, if you were baptized unbiblically, and what I mean by that is, Jesus was baptized through the method of what is called immersion. He went into the Jordan river, He was immersed by John the Baptist, He came up out of the water.

Some churches teach sprinkling for baptism, or pouring, or they throw rose petals, and I don't want to be critical, but there's really no precedent for that in the Bible. The symbolism for baptism is very important. It represents a new birth, a washing. So one reason for re-baptism is if you weren't baptized Biblically.

Another reason would be, if you have essentially divorced yourself from the Lord--a person stops going to church, they kind of deny their commitment to Christ, they go out in the world--if they're going to come back, it might be a good idea for them to get a new beginning and be re-baptized.

The third example, and you'll find this in Acts chapter 19, where there were some men that were faithful followers. They were even baptized by immersion by John the Baptist, but they had not heard about Jesus. They came into a whole new understanding of what the truth was. And Paul said, "Look, you need to be re-baptized" and he laid hands on them, and they were filled with the Spirit.

So, if a person just has really missed the basics of the Gospel and they come into a whole new epiphany of what the truth is, some may feel impressed, "I need to get a new beginning through the ceremony of re-baptism as well." And so you've got, at least, that case.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know, we have a book that, Darnell, you'll be able to read for free online at the Amazing Facts website. It's entitled, "Baptism: Is It Really Necessary?" and it covers these different areas for re-baptism as well. Just go to the Amazing Facts website, amazingfacts.com, and in the little search bar, type "baptism is it really necessary", and you'll be able to go to the book. Read it right online.

Pastor Batchelor: Good question. A lot of people out there are probably wondering. They're talking about coming back to the Lord, "Do I need to be baptized?"

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Earnest who's listening from New Jersey. Earnest, welcome to the program.

Earnest: Yes, hello.

Pastor Batchelor: Good evening.

Earnest: I have a question about the interpretation of prophecy.

Pastor Batchelor: Okay.

Earnest: I understand there are three interpretations. One is preterism, and futurism, and historicism, is that right?

Pastor Batchelor: That's correct.

Earnest: And I noticed that the predominant teaching is futurism today.

Pastor Batchelor: Yes.

Earnest: I've read a lot about it. I've had a lot of books; and I went through futurism and I compared it with the Bible. I find that there is a tremendous amount of contradictions and a lot of assumptions when you're interpreting futurism. But in historicism, I found that everything fits together from Genesis to Revelation.

Pastor Batchelor: Now Earnest, can I jump in for a moment?

Earnest: Certainly.

Pastor Batchelor: Yes, I know what you're talking about, and you know what you're talking about, but we've got a lot of listeners. Let me give a quick, brief explanation.

Earnest: Sure, okay.

Pastor Batchelor: When we're talking about, especially the book of Revelation and even Daniel, there are three views. One view is preterism, and it's from the word "pre". They think most of Revelation is fulfilled and was fulfilled in the first 100 years of Christian history. For instance, they think Nero was the anti-Christ. All of Revelation is in the past. It's all "pre". Then you've got futurism, which actually is probably the most popular view because of superior marketing; it's not the truth, it's just lots of books and movies. It takes much of Revelation, from chapter 4 on, and it kind of thrusts it off into the future.

And then historicism, which is the interpretation of the great Reformers. In other words, most Protestants started out as historicists. They believe the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation cover a panorama of the history of God leading His people over the course of time. It's not just something. It's all in the past or all in the future. But it's really--those prophecies help us know in every age where we are; and that's where, I believe, Pastor Ross and I are. And I think, Earnest, you're saying that's what's making sense to you.

Earnest: Yes it does. My puzzle is, I sometimes visit the Princeton Theological Seminaries, one of the most prestigious seminaries in the nation, and they're definitely teaching futurism.

Pastor Batchelor: Right.

Earnest: I'm sure these scholars have gotten a hold of the historicists' view. How can they teach something and has so many contradictions and so much assumptions, and not historicism, which everything fits? That's the puzzle.

Pastor Batchelor: Alright. Well, I've got a thought and Pastor Ross has a thought to answer you. First of all, when Jesus came the first time, in the University of Jerusalem, their understanding of when the Messiah came was totally wrong. They took the prophecies and they had basically abandoned the interpretation of prophecies from Isaiah and some of the others.

And they believed the Messiah was going to come riding on a great, white horse and knock over all the Romans and make them a world empire. When Jesus came as a Sacrifice, they just mocked, they said, "This doesn't fit at all with our understanding of prophecy," So, this would not be the first time that the scholars totally missed it.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Well you know Pastor Doug, also, the historicists' view which, as you mentioned earlier, was the view held by the Protestant Reformers, does point out certain institutions as key players at the end of time. And quite frankly, that can make a number of people uncomfortable--

Pastor Batchelor: Um-hum

Pastor Jëan Ross: --based upon what the Bible says is taking place, and will take place. It seems today that in Christendom, there is an effort to try and, perhaps, gloss over some of the past, some of the things that have happened, and some of the things that the Bible says will happen, and who the key players are. So that might be another reason why futurism has become more popular than the Protestant Reformers--

Pastor Batchelor: It's easier to swallow. Yeah, it doesn't offend anybody.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right.

Pastor Batchelor: Yes, good point. I hope that helps a little bit Earnest.

Earnest: Yes it does, it helped a lot. Thank you.

Pastor Batchelor: If you've not yet seen the book we offered tonight, we'll send you a free copy. "Anything But Secret" really deals with the Biblical or the historic view of prophetic interpretation.

Pastor Jëan Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747. That is the resource line. You can ask for the book, "Anything But Secret." 1-800-835-6747. We have Thomas who is listening from Brooklyn, New York. Thomas, welcome to the program.

Thomas: Thank you. Good evening Pastors.

Pastor Batchelor and Pastor Jëan Ross: Good evening

Thomas: Yes, my question has to do with Saul on the eve before the battle, when he went to the witch to call up Samuel for advice. And when the witch called Samuel up, she startled herself because she was expecting, I guess, a demon impersonating Samuel; but it was actually Samuel himself. Now I was listening to your program and when the dead die, they sleep until the resurrection day. So who was that? Was that Samuel who was appearing, or was that an impersonation?

Pastor Batchelor: Well, the story that you're going to find in, I believe it's 1st Samuel, the end of 1st Samuel, is when King Saul's about to go to battle. He's overwhelmed by the Philistines. He's terrified about the battle. And the prophets won't speak to him; the Lord doesn't speak to him through Priests or through the Spirit; and finally, in desperation, he goes to a witch--which was totally forbidden--because these witches were in cahoots with the devil. Everyone knew that.

Thomas: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: It's still true today. And so, the very idea that he went to the witch right away shows you he's on enchanted ground. Witches and the devil does not have the power to resurrect a prophet of God. She creates an apparition. The devil, of course, knew Samuel. The devil knows what Samuel looks like, what he sounds like, what he smells like, and he can reproduce these things. The devil is an angel of light; and Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 11 Satan can appear as an angel of light. He can create illusions [cross talk]

Thomas: Wasn't she startled--I'm sorry--wasn't she startled? She knew that uh--which I'm sure she's done this in the past. She knew that she had conjure up an evil spirit, but her surprise uh, wasn't she actually startled that that was actually Samuel himself?

Pastor Batchelor: No. What she's, I think, startled by is the devil reveals to her that King Saul came in disguise, King Saul, who had been killing witches before.

Thomas: Oh I see. I got you.

Pastor Batchelor: Suddenly she realizes, "Your Saul!" She says that. She's scared for her life right now. She's a medium. She's used to dealing with spooks; so she wasn't startled by this apparition.

Thomas: I get it.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know it's also interesting, the commentary on this story you can read in 1st Chronicles chapter 10, verse 11. You read the story in 1st Samuel, but then in 1st Chronicles 10:13, it says, "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he did not keep, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it." So the commentary in 1st Chronicles doesn't say that Saul asked Samuel, it says he asked a familiar spirit--meaning, an evil spirit.

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah. Devil.

Thomas: Right. Okay thank you very much.

Pastor Batchelor: Absolutely. Good question. And by the way, we have a website, brand new friends. We launched it during halloween, but it's one of the most popular searches online. It's called Ghost Truth, ghosttruth.com. It has more about ghosts, and this particular story is in there.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have Sarah listening from Toronto, Canada. Sarah, welcome to the program.

Sarah: Hi

Pastor Batchelor: Hi

Sarah: Happy new year to you guys, and all of us for 2012.

Pastor Batchelor: Oh, thank you

Sarah: Okay, I just want to know the latter part of Psalm 15:4. It says, "...He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not." What does it really mean by that? Because I am in a situation where now I think I swear to my own hurt and I can't get out.

Pastor Batchelor: Psalm 15 is a beautiful Psalm. It only has five verses. It talks about who's going to heaven. And part of the criteria of the people of the Lord is, when they make a vow to God, they keep their vow, even if it's going to be difficult for them.

Sarah: Oh okay.

Pastor Batchelor: Now, some people have called before and they said, "Pastor Doug, when I was younger, I was in the rock and roll band, and I was taking drugs, I sold my soul to the devil and I vowed to serve the devil. Now I want to be a Christian. Do I have to keep my promise to the devil?" And I'm always happy to tell them, "Nope" because he's actually the essence of evil; and he wouldn't want to do that.

But Peter denied knowing Jesus. He was forgiven for that. But if a person makes a vow, the Bible says you're better not to vow, than to vow and not keep it. One extreme example of this in the Bible is one of the Judges by the name of Jephthah. And I'm not sure what I would have done, but Jephthah promised to dedicate to the Lord as an offering, whatever came through his gates, if he came back from this battle victorious. I'm sure he thought it would be one of the family sheep or goats. It turned out to be his daughter.

So he dedicated his daughter to the temple; and she never married and never had grandchildren. So, that would be an example of someone saying, "Look, I made a vow. I've got to keep it."

Pastor Jëan Ross: And of course, any vow that we make, even if it's a foolish vow or we realize that it was bad, if it calls for us to contradict God's commandments, well then that's very clear, God doesn't want us to keep that vow.

Pastor Batchelor: That's right, good point.

Sarah: Okay. The thing is, I agreed to do something for somebody and I wondered what was I doing, and then I was praying and asking what should I do. And then that Psalm came to me and that's the verse I keep getting every time I approach the subject.

Pastor Batchelor: Well, I don't know the situation, but it could be the Holy Spirit. You have to know what the details are, but if you've made a promise, and in good faith you made a promise, and the promise does not involve your breaking one of God's commandments, as far and wide as any, you should honor your word.

Sarah: Okay, okay. Could you tell me the king in the Old Testament that, before he seeks the Lord, he seeks the physicians? [cross talk]

Pastor Batchelor: The one who was seeking the physicians?

Sarah: Um-hum

Pastor Batchelor: Uh well, that could be Hezekiah and it could be King Ahaziah. There are a couple of examples.

Sarah: Yeah, that's what I had tried to remember. Do you know the Bible Scriptures where you find them?

Pastor Batchelor: Well you'll find King Ahaziah in the Second book of Kings, chapter one. And he went to these false prophets to find out about his health, as opposed to going to the Lord. Oh, now I know which one you're talking about. You're talking about--there's a king who sought the physicians, that's Ahaz. He sought the physicians when he had problems in his feet instead of seeking the Lord. He probably had gout.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Yeah.

Pastor Batchelor: And he wouldn't seek the Lord. I think that was King Ahaz. I appreciate your question, Sarah. And we're going to take line three I guess.

Pastor Jëan Ross: We have James who is listening from Huntington Beach, California. James, welcome to the program.

Pastor Batchelor: They've got good surfing down there when the water is warm.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right!

James: Hi Pastors, how are you doing tonight?

Pastor Batchelor: Good evening

Pastor Jëan Ross: Doing well

James: That's good. Yes, I have a question. I know that a woman shouldn't be ordained as a Pastor in the church, I think you said; but I belong to a church that keeps the Sabbath. They had ordained a woman as a Pastor. That's the first woman that they ordained as a Pastor in that type of church; and I want to know why that took place, if a woman shouldn't be a Pastor.

Pastor Batchelor: Well you're asking two questions really. One question would be, what does the Bible say about it? And the other question is, why are some churches doing things that may be out of sync with, at least with my understanding of the Bible is; and it sounds like your understanding.

First, I want to make something clear, because people only hear part of what your answer is, every believer is called to ministry. Every believer is called to be a witness. God gives spiritual gifts to every believer, man or woman, it doesn't matter. In Christ Jesus, there's neither male nor female, slave or bond, rich or poor, we're all one in Christ.

Ordination to ministry as a pastor, apostle, priest, there are only examples in the Bible of men being ordained to these offices, because men are to be the servant leaders in the family.

James: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: And the church is an extension of the family.

James: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: Back in Abraham's time, for instance, he was the Patriarch, and he offered sacrifice for his family; and likewise with Job, and with Jacob, and you can go all the way down from Adam. God said part of the curse was, He says, "Your desire will be to your husband, and he will rule over you." So, men were to be the leaders of the family; and they were to hold that role of the priesthood of the family.

A person can be ordained in a number of capacities, but to be ordained as a pastor, or apostle--you know we don't really have too many apostles being ordained today--those roles were 100% male roles in the Bible.

James: Okay.

Pastor Batchelor: So your second question is, some churches seem to be departing from Biblical guidelines in this area and many other areas.

James: Yes.

Pastor Batchelor: And that's unfortunate.

Pastor Jëan Ross: You know James, we do have a book. Pastor Doug, you wrote a book not too long ago called, "Women In Ministry." To learn more about that, the number to call is 1-800-835-6747. You can ask for the book, "Women in Ministry," and we'll be happy to send that out. 1-800-835-6747, "Women in Ministry." Alright, next caller is Betty and she's calling from Los Angeles. Betty, welcome to the program.

Betty: Well thank you for having me. I have a question for you and it has to do with: I was brought up in many Christian, spirit-filled denominations. And as my mom has grown older in her life--I'm 51 now--she's following a different path that she believes is a higher path with following a judicial, you know, like um, the Sabbath is Saturday, and you cannot eat pork, and that to be blessed you have to do this, if not, you get the cursings. And it's just hard for me because our whole life, we did it this way; and I have a job where I cannot even attend church right now. I'm a truck driver over the road full time. And I have a church that I support, been a member of for 18 years. I just really find it hard to believe that God isn't going to bless me for my service in the world, doing what I do and spreading the Gospel, because I don't practice the Saturday Sabbath, or I choose to have a ham sandwich.

Pastor Batchelor: Okay, well, you're raising some good questions, and I don't know if we're going to get them all answered tonight.

Betty: Okay.

Pastor Batchelor: But let's take one.

Betty: Okay. I just want to know if I'm not as a Christian as she is, kind of thing [cross talk]

Pastor Batchelor: Let me tell you right now. Betty, there's going to be a lot of people in heaven who, maybe, ate something unclean, that the Bible would call unclean. There will be people in heaven who went to church on the wrong day. There will be people in heaven that had multiple wives. There will be people in heaven that had slaves, right?

Betty: Okay.

Pastor Batchelor: I mean you can look at Abraham, David.

Betty: Right.

Pastor Batchelor: Now today, if I get multiple wives or slaves, I'm in trouble with my wife or the government--

Betty: Exactly

Pastor Batchelor: --because I know better. So God judges us based on His revealing truth and light. If a person doesn't know something and they're living up to the light that God has given them, Jesus said, "If you did not know, you'd have no sin." But the main thing you need

to ask, Betty, is, "If I'm studying the Bible, and if the Lord is revealing something to me," you don't want to say, "How could I have been wrong all this time, and will God not accept me if I continue?"

Take each subject by itself and study it.

Betty: Right

Pastor Batchelor: And if you study, for instance, the Sabbath truth--

Betty: Right

Pastor Batchelor: --I think you're going to find that there is really no question about what day is the Sabbath. Biblically, it goes all the way from Genesis to Revelation. The seventh day is the Sabbath. I remember when I first learned it. It troubled me because I was going to church on Sunday with lovely people; many I expect to see in heaven.

Betty: Right

Pastor Batchelor: But once I learned the truth, I couldn't keep doing something differently. Now, you know, yeah--and it does cause problems. Whenever we walk in to truth, it can cause problems, with our job, with our family. Jesus said, "I didn't come to send peace, but a sword." But with every truth is a blessing.

Betty: Right

Pastor Batchelor: And oh, Betty you know, you've asked some great questions and we're going to run out of time before we're able to answer all your questions. I'd just like to appeal to you Betty, if you go to the Amazing Facts website, which is amazingfacts.org, even if you type in amazingfacts.com, we have a series of Bible studies there that you can take for free online. You really owe it to yourself. You sound like a very sincere, sweet Christian; and you've got a good attitude in the way you're looking at this.

And if I were you, I'd probably be thinking and asking the same questions. Take each subject one at a time. There are Bible teachings on does the Bible still ask us to regard clean and unclean foods. You're asking about that. Then you're asking about the Sabbath truth, are we still, as Christians, expected to keep the Ten Commandments--not to be saved but because we are saved--including the Fourth Commandment. Very good questions, very important study.

Pastor Jëan Ross: Do you know Pastor Doug, we get this question quite a bit from time to time with reference to Sabbath. There's a great website that Amazing Facts has called, sabbathtruth.com. What I like about it is, there is a documentary that you can actually watch right online that gives you the history of the Sabbath. It goes all the way back, back to the time of the Israelites and early Christians in the first century, and so on. It gives you the history, documented cases.

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah, it's all narrated by the Academy Award nominee, Hal Holbrook.

Pastor Jëan Ross: That's right. Very well done. And that's sabbathtruth.com, just a wealth of information at the website.

Pastor Batchelor: Yeah Betty, do that; and if you also have time to go to the Bible studies, they're at amazingfacts.org or bibleuniverse.com. Go through the Amazing Facts study guides. It changes a lot of lives. We hear wonderful stories about people that just are on cloud nine because of the things they learn there, and I know you'd be blessed too.

So hey friends, this has been wonderful visiting with you, and we'd like to wish you a blessed new year; and go visit our website and pray for the meetings, Reclaim Your Faith, next week.

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