Pastor Doug Batchelor: Welcome listening friends to Bible Answers Live. Would you like to hear an amazing fact? In order to demonstrate how important it is to think ahead, Amazon founder and billionaire, Jeff Bezos, is dedicating $42 million to build a single clock, but this is not just any clock. The 10,000-year clock is designed to measure time on a millennial-scale. The clock's creator, computer scientist, Danny Hillis, has a vision for a timepiece that ticks once every year with a century hand that moves just once every a hundred years and a cuckoo that emerges every 1,000 years.
The clock is now under construction on property owned by Bezos in a very remote rock mountain in the middle of the Texas desert. The five hundred foot deep tunnel that will house the mechanism has already been drilled and assembly is now in progress. According to the Long Now Foundation that oversees the project, the clock is designed to capture energy from changes in temperature to power the apparatus. The clock's chime generator will create a different bell-ringing sequence for each day for 10,000 years.
Carved into the mountain, beside the clock apparatus, there are going to be five rooms that are sized for different anniversary chambers, one for the one-year anniversary, the 10 year, the 100 year, the 1000 year, and, yes, the 10,000-year anniversary room. In the first room, the clock will activate and run a planetarium model once a year. Bezos and the designer are going to let other centuries and generations figure out what to do with the other years. According to the 10,000-year clock website, visitors will be welcomed to view the massive timepiece, but be prepared for a rough trip.
The nearest airport is several hours away by car and you need to scale a rugged 2,000-foot trail to reach the clock. Did you know the Bible says that God is going to give the devil a 1,000-year time out after Jesus comes? Stay with us, friends, we're going to learn more on this edition of Bible Answers Live.
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Announcer: You're listening to Bible Answers Live: Honest answers to your Bible questions. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now, let's join our host Pastor Doug Batchelor and our co-host Pastor Jean Ross.
Pastor Doug: Welcome listening friends to Bible Answers Live, and just as the title suggests, this is a live, international, interactive Bible study. We get calls from all across the country and sometimes other parts of the world. If you have a Bible question, go ahead and give a call. The number is free, it's a toll-free number, 800-463-7297, we'll bring you into the studio, but call now to get your question on tonight's program. 800-463-7297 and my name is Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Jean Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Good evening, listening friends, we also want to welcome those who are joining us on Facebook across the country. Pastor, Doug, let's start the program with a word of prayer. Dear Father in heaven, we thank you once again that we are able to take some time to open up your word and study this evening. We want to ask your blessing to those listening and guide us here as we search the scriptures in Jesus' name.
Pastor Doug: Amen.
Pastor Ross: Pastor Doug, you opened the program by talking about, well, someone investing a lot of money. What did you say, 40 plus million dollars to create a clock that's supposed to last at least 10,000 years?
Pastor Doug: Yes, 42 million.
Pastor Ross: 42 million.
Pastor Doug: Yes, what's that, four or five million, right?
Pastor Ross: Right.
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Pastor Doug: Yes, it's pretty incredible. They got a website, anyone can go look and Jeff Bezos was tweeting about it. It's a project he's very interested in and I guess, technically, he's the richest man in the world now. He's got, what, $50 billion? I'm not sure how much. Thought, "I want to make something that is going to be around for a thousand years that appeals to some people." They're making this massive clock with very carefully machines, solid components and supposedly you won't have to oil or maintain, that it's just going to go on its own without any human interference ticking away once a year for 10,000 years. Now that would be if the Lord didn't come.
I highly suspect Jesus is coming in the near future. Many Christian theologians believe in what they call the 7,000-year theory. Martin Luther believed this and Jane Andrews and a number of others. The idea that you look at the date of creation approximately 4,000 years BC, no one knows the exact day, and you've got 2,000 years from Adam to Abraham, 2,000 years from Abraham to Jesus. Right now we're living about 2,000 years from Jesus' time to the present, that's 6,000 years, and then Revelations says we get like a thousand years Sabbath where we live and reign with Christ. You can read about that a thousand years sometimes known as the millennium.
Now the word millennium is not in the Bible, just like you don't find the word Bible in the Bible and you don't find the word trinity in the Bible, but the teaching is there. Millennium simply means milli, a thousand, annum years. Revelation 20:1, it says, "I saw an angel come down from heaven having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand and he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old who was the Devil and Satan." If you had any questions about who the Devil is, it says it's Satan, it's the dragon, it's the serpent.
"Bound him a thousand years and cast him into the bottomless pit and shut him up and set a seal on him that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished," but after this, he must be loose for a little season. The Devil is going to get bound, we're going to get rest from the Devil you might say for a thousand years, he's getting a time-out. People wonder now what is the bottomless pit and where is the bottomless pit and why would God let him out of the bottomless pit after a thousand years? If you've got questions on this subject of the millennium or that 1,000 years, then we've got a free offer that talks all about it.
Pastor Ross: This free offer is part of our Amazing Fact study guide series and it's called A Thousand Years of Peace. It's all about this Revelation 20, this 1,000 year time period and this is a free offer for anybody who'd like to learn more about that. The number to call is 800-835-6747, that is our resource phone line and you can ask for the study guide called A Thousand Years of Peace. While you're there on the phone, you might as well sign up. It's free for our Amazing Fact study guide series. It's just a fantastic course that'll take you through 27 lessons-
Pastor Doug: Amen.
Pastor Ross: - dealing with some very important Bible truths. Are we ready to go to the phone lines? Our first caller this evening is Tyler listening in Oklahoma, I believe. Tyler, welcome to the program.
Tyler: Hi, I'm Tyler, I'm from Oklahoma City and I'm 11. How are you, Doug?
Pastor Doug: I'm doing good, thank you, Tyler, for calling in. What's your question tonight?
Tyler: My question is in Deuteronomy 34:5. Hold on. First, Moses wrote Deuteronomy, right?
Pastor Doug: Yes.
Tyler: So how could Moses write about his own death if he died?
Pastor Doug: Oh, good question.
Tyler: Because on Deuteronomy 5 it says he died.
Pastor Doug: Yes, good question. You'll find that also in the Book of Joshua and even in the Book of Samuel, the Book is named after them, but it doesn't mean they wrote every chapter because, obviously, the epitaph in the end of the book, Moses couldn't write about his death and tell how wonderful he was because he was dead, so probably Joshua, who is the succedor of Moses, he wrote that. Then in the Book of Joshua, after Joshua dies, it talks about Joshua. Some believe that Ezra, who is a spirit-filled scribe, he went and compiled many of the Old Testament Books after the Babylonian captivity, and under the inspiration of the spirit, he wrote a couple of the post-scripts on some of these books.
Some have wondered who that was, but probably Joshua wrote the end of Deuteronomy where it talks about the death of Moses. Good question.
Pastor Ross: We do have a book that you might find interesting, Tyler, that talks about the Bible. Maybe not specifically this question, but the Bible in general, how do we get the Bible? it's called The Ultimate Resource. We're happy to send that book to you, it's a book that Pastor Doug wrote. To receive it for free, just call 800-835-6747, you can ask for the book The Ultimate Resource or you can just go to the Amazing Facts website, you can read it for free online. That's just amazingfacts.org or .com. The next caller that we have is Ginger listening from, looks like Nebraska. Ginger, welcome to the program.
Ginger: Hello.
Pastor Doug: Hi, thank you for calling.
Ginger: Thank you. My question is they say that you recognize your relatives when you go to heaven. Does that just mean your adoptive parents or your biological parents? Because I was adopted when I was a baby, I don't know if that means that I might recognize my biological parents or just my adoptive parents.
Pastor Doug: When you get to heaven, you'll not only have your mental senses of discernment, but we will have supernatural discernment because we'll all be spirit-filled and God's spirit will be guiding us, and, of course, you'll be thrilled if your biological parents are in heaven. That's our first hope. We'd love to believe that all of our loved ones will be there, and if they are there, I'm sure the angels will show you the record book and say, "Hey, take a look." The Bible you read in, I think it's 1 Corinthians 13, it says, "Then I will know even as I am known." Speaking of heaven. Pastor Ross has a thought.
Pastor Ross: Yes, I was just going to add, and you mentioned that, Pastor Doug, the angels, of course, they know who our parents are, they know who our relatives are that we perhaps have never even met, and if they're in heaven, I think the angels will be delighted to introduce us to family members that we might not have known here on this earth.
Ginger: Thank you.
Pastor Ross: Going to be neat, a great reunion day when Jesus comes.
Pastor Doug: Amen. Thank you, a good question. We do have some study guides that talk about the resurrection in the second coming of Jesus, where it talks about the ultimate deliverance.
Pastor Ross: Yes, we'll be happy to send that to anybody who calls and asks. That's, again, part of our study guide series. Just call 800-835-6747, you're going to ask for the study guide called, The Ultimate Deliverance. We'll be happy to send that to anybody who calls and asks.
Announcer: Do you want to know God's plan for our world and solutions for your life's challenges? Beautifully redesigned, Amazing Facts 27 Bible study guides providing encouraging Bible-based answers to questions on healthier relationships, when Jesus will return, and much more. Prefer to watch while you read? Our brand new prophecy encounters DVD series makes the perfect companion set. Order your study guides and DVDs today by visiting afbookstore.com or by calling 800-538-7275.
Pastor Doug: Our next caller is Galino listening from Texas. I believe it's Gavino, welcome to the program.
Gavino: Yes, good evening pastors.
Pastor Doug: Evening.
Gavino: Just a brief testimony. I was a drunk for 20 years. After going to church, pastor asked me to join. I said I feel like a hypocrite because I still drink every day. I cannot get up without a drink, so he asked me, "Do you ever want to stop?" I said, "Yes." After they prayed for me, as soon as they finished praying, the craving just went away instantly.
Pastor Doug: That's a miracle.
Gavino: Yes, it is. The issue I have, I see that I have other sins that are magnified and I cannot control them, so, therefore, I doubt my salvation and sometimes I just want to give up.
Pastor Doug: First of all, it's the grace of God that gave you victory over alcohol and I know exactly what you're talking about. The Lord miraculously saved me from a number of things when I came to Him, but I notice He didn't take everything away because he wanted me, of course, to recognize my dependence on Him. Some things you need to wrestle through. Even Paul said, "We wrestle, not against flesh and blood." Paul said we need to fight the fight of faith and we need to run the race and we need to wage the war. Terms of great effort are connected with the Christian life. People who say that once you accept Jesus that all temptation is gone, that's not what the Bible says. The Bible has language that talks about all kinds of striving that goes on.
Pastor Ross: I'm reminded of the story, the gospels of how the disciples were sent out by Christ and they were performing miracles, they were casting out all kinds of devils, and on one occasion, they weren't able to cast this devil out and it puzzled them. Finally, Jesus came and Jesus cast out the devil, and they said, "Why couldn't we cast out that devil?" Jesus said, "This kind comes out with prayer and fasting." I'm thinking, in our lives, there are certain aspects or certain struggles that we might have or temptations that require a little more prayer and maybe even some fasting in order to gain the victory. God does not deliver us of every sin the same way. Sometimes you really got to plead for that deliverance, our faith has to be tested.
Pastor Doug: Yes, sometimes it's not the same way and sometimes it's not all the same day either. Sometimes we grow, so don't become discouraged. I'm trying to think, we've got a number of books that Pastor Crews wrote about the Christian life and there's a book called The Power of a Positive No that talks about victory against temptation. Would you like us to send you a free copy of that?
Gavino: Yes.
Pastor Doug: The Power of a Positive No. I think it'll encourage you.
Pastor Ross: You know the number to call.
Gavino: Just a quick response. I believe he created that miracle because I was almost going blood out. I was on my deathbed, so I think he needed to do that, but I just understand that there are sins that I still enjoy. Yes, if you just give me that number.
Pastor Ross: Sure. The number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book called Power of a Positive No. That's a good book. The Power of a Positive No. 800-835-6747, and of course, all of us have to claim the promise where the bible says, "No temptation is following you," which is not common to men, but God will provide a way of escape.
Pastor Doug: That's right.
Pastor Ross: So you must never give up.
Pastor Doug: If I may mention again, if he wants to read that right now, he can go to the Amazing Facts website and I think that book is one that you can download for free.
Pastor Ross: The next caller that we have is Mark listening in Florida. Mark, welcome to the program.
Mark: Thanks. My question has to do with the closeup and the timely events. I want to know which comes first, the seven last plagues or the close of probation?
Pastor Doug: The close of probation happens, I believe, before the seven last plagues. Once the plagues fall, no one is converted from the plagues because it tells us that they're cursing the lord. Isn't this your understanding?
Pastor Ross: Yes, absolutely. You look in Daniel 12, it says, "Michael shall stand up," meaning that probation closes, and then it says there's a time of trouble worse than the world has ever seen. Of course, this other passage on Revelation that indicate, and of course, some people ask, well, why would Christ or why would God allow the plagues to fall after probation is closed and people can't change the sides? The purpose of the plagues, there is a judgment component, but it's also revealing what is actually in the hind. After the plagues fall, the righteous trust in God, they know their deliverance has come, but the wicked instead of their hearts being softened, they turn and rebellion against God.
Pastor Doug: They curse God. Blasphemy it says.
Pastor Ross: Right.
Pastor Doug: When it says, "Michael stands up," it's like at the end of a court when a judge stands up, they're not listening to evidence anymore, cases are closed. Yes, that's a good verse. I hope that helps a little bit and by the way, we do have a book if you'd like a free copy on Who is Michael the Archangel? We'll send that to you if you'd like that Mark.
Pastor Ross: Yes, the number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book called Who is Michael the Archangel? We also have a study guide called Case Closed, which I believe talks about the judgment and the close of probation. We'll be happy to send both of those to you, Mark, or anybody who calls and asks. The number is 800-835-6747. Our next caller that we have, let's see, we've got Josie listening from Georgia. Josie welcome to the program.
Josie: Hey, how are you.
Pastor Doug: Doing well. Thank you for calling.
Josie: Oh, I'm so excited. Do I ask the questions again?
Pastor Doug: I am too. Yes, well, take a stab at it.
Josie: It's actually for my son. He asked me, he said, "God knows everything, so he knows if we're going to go to hell or if we're going to go to heaven, so what is the point of trying if we've already been destined?" Does that make sense?
Pastor Doug: Yes. God knowing doesn't mean we don't have freedom. Tell your son that it's something like the weatherman has a satellite up in the sky and he can see when a car is getting ready to drive over a cliff, but he's not making the car drive over the cliff, he just has an advanced view. God knowing all things, He knows the future, but it doesn't mean He's taken away our freedom to make choices. We would all like to know ahead of time, am I going to make it? If we know we're going to make it, I guess we try harder and if we don't know that we're going to make it, we might throw our hands in the air.
That's why Jesus said have faith you're going to make it and you will. Like the spies that went to the promised land, those who did not believe they could concur the giants, they didn't, and those who believed they could, they did. The just will live by faith, so tell your son, "Believe you're going to make it and live like you're going to make and you'll make it."
Josie: Okay, so say if somebody was being bad and going towards the bad path, could they have a change of heart?
Pastor Doug: Sure, that's a story of the Bible. I can name a lot of people, I'm one of them. You got the prodigal son who ended up in a pig pen but he had a change of heart and he came home. You've got King Manasseh who was a wicked king, worshipping foreign gods, but he repented and he was forgiven. The bible is full of stories of God's incredible grace. What is it, Ezekiel:18 where it says, "If the wicked man turns from his wickedness, all his wickedness will be forgotten," right?
Pastor Ross: It's important for us to remember that when we pray and we ask God for help, God deals with us with the way we are at the moment. Sometimes we're tempted to think, "What's the point of even praying? Because maybe I'm lost and so God's not going to answer my prayer." No, if we pray in sincerity, God will answer our prayer irrespective of what our final destiny is. He doesn't make a decision based on what will happen some distant future, He makes a decision to help us right now because we're calling upon Him.
Josie: Thank you so much.
Pastor Doug: Thank you and thank you for your call. I'm just trying to think, we've got a book that you would enjoy, it's called Three Steps to Heaven, and we'll send you a free copy.
Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book called Three Steps to Heaven. We'll be happy to send it to anyone who calls and asks. The next caller we'll be having is Danny, and he is listening from Washington. Danny, you're on Bible Answers Live.
Danny: Hi, I'm glad to hear you're all doing well.
Pastor Doug: Thank you.
Danny: I have a question for you about the third temple. Is there going to be a third temple built that you can gain from the Bible that will be a temporary peace between the Palestinians and Israelis allowing it long enough to build their third temple? Apparently, they have all of the adornments, the Jews do.
Pastor Doug: I got an email from someone. People send me all kinds of interesting facts, and I guess there is a third temple group, some advocates in Israel that want to build the third temple, and they just minted a shekel coin with Trump's face on it. I think they got Cyrus on one side and Trump on the other because he's moving the capital to Jerusalem, so they're minting a shekel with Trump's face on it.
Pastor Ross: [laughs] Is that the temple shekels?
Pastor Doug: [chuckles] I don't know, but let me tell you, I think the third temple is under construction now, but it's not what you think. Pastor Ross, what is it, 2 Thessalonians where it says he will sit in the temple of God?
Pastor Ross: Yes.
Pastor Doug: Do you want to find that for me real quick?
Pastor Ross: Sure.
Pastor Doug: Some people read this verse in 2 Thessalonians and they think it means that they're going to build a third Jewish temple, but Christ said, "Destroy this temple made with hands, and in three days, I will raise it up." He spoke of His body and the church is called the body of Christ. Peter said we are living stones and Jesus is the cornerstone, and Paul says in Ephesians that we are being build-up to a spiritual house. Paul said, "Don't you know that you are the temple of God?" The temple in the world today, where sacrifices are offered, are the people of God, it's not a physical edifice.
So personally, I think all the hubbub about rebuilding the temple, I'm half Jewish, most of the Jews don't practice sacrifice anymore, that's been abandoned for 1900 years, and that was the main thing they did in the sanctuary.
Pastor Ross: The verse you're thinking about is 2 Thessalonians 2:4. Talking about this anti-Christ power, it says "who apposes and exalts himself above all that is called god, that which is worshipped so that he sits as god in the temple of God showing himself that he is god."
Pastor Doug: Now I think what he just read is talking about the beast's power putting himself over the spiritual temple of God, the church, claiming to be god. I don't think it's a beast power enthroning himself in a Jewish temple because the Jews had no throne for a human in their temples.
Pastor Ross: One more additional thought on that, it's very significant when Jesus began His public ministry, and He cleansed the temple, He said, "Make not my Father's house a house of merchandise. It's a house of prayer," but right at the end, just the very last time when Jesus left the temple, He said to the religious leaders, "Your house is left to you desolate." As if the temple is disowned by God, by Christ at that point. If a temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem, it's not going to have any spiritual significance as relates to the church or God's spiritual Israel because now the focus is on Heaven, where the heavenly temple is and Jesus is ministering for us.
Pastor Doug: Yes, that's why He told the disciples when they showed Him all the beautiful stones in the temple, He said, "Don't you see all these things? There won't be one stone left upon another that won't be thrown down." When Christ died, the veil in the temple was torn signifying the whole purpose for the earthly temple was fulfilled. We don't need to sacrifice lambs now, it's the lamb of God. There has been discussion for 2000 years that maybe someday they would get their land back and rebuild the temple, but in my opinion, the Jews would never settle for building a temple anywhere other than the Temple Mount, and right now, there is the third most holy Muslim shrine on that piece of real estate.
It would cause World War III if the Jews went up there with D9s and started to demolish the Mosque of Omar. I really don't think that's going to happen. Hey, that's a great question, and we have a book that talks about spiritual Israel, and it talks about the temple in there. If you call and ask, we'll send you a free copy of Spiritual Israel.
Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book called Spiritual Israel. Pastor, I just thought, you did a sermon series not too long ago, it was something a little different about Islam in Bible prophecy. I think you addressed a little bit relating to Jerusalem and some of the conflict over the temple and the things connected with that. I think that video is for free online, you can take a look at it.
Pastor Doug: Yes, it's actually a series of three videos, Christianity, Islam, and prophecy. I understand it's been very popular. If you just type that in to Google or YouTube, it seems like everything gets up there. People would buy the DVDs, but about a month later, then they just post them it YouTube and no one buys them anymore.
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Pastor Ross: The next caller that we have is Michael listening from Michigan. Michael, welcome to the program.
Michael: Hello, guys. I don't know how I'm going to turn this into a Bible-related question, but I'm going to do the best I can, see what happens. Is it okay to listen to non-Christian music? I don't know how to say it.
Pastor Doug: That's a good question. You phrased it pretty well. Now, Michael, let me just give you a heads-up. We may get interrupted before I finish answering your question with our bottom-of-the-hour break. If we do, we'll come back and finish with you, so if you hear music in the background, we're not dumping you, just hang on. Is it okay for Christians to listen to non-Christian music? The Bible says whatever things are good and holy and noble, just, true, think on these things. It is possible that Christians could participate in folk music as long as it doesn't violate a Christian principle. If you sing God Bless America, that's a patriotic song.
Just it doesn't mean a Christian can't sing that because it's not technically a religious song. There might be a romantic song you would sing to your girlfriend or you wife. Hopefully, if you have a wife, you don't also have a girlfriend unless she is your wife, but you've got the Song of Solomon in the Bible, which is a romantic song. There is a right place for those things, but there is a number of principles about music you want to sensitive to, so much music these days is sexually suggestive. Stand by, Mike, and we'll maybe pick you up after the break if you don't mind holding on. Friends, we are going to have just a brief break in a few moments. Don't go anywhere. More Bible questions coming your way, and some important announcements.
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Announcer: Stay tuned, Bible Answers Live will return in a moment.
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Pastor Doug: Hello, friends, Pastor Doug Batchelor here with Amazing Facts. Coreen was divorced, pregnant, and very concerned about her future, but God saw her in her desperate loneliness and confusion, and He used a coworker to share an Amazing Facts DVD that led Coreen to our website. Here at the website, she studied our life-changing, free, online Bible studies. What she learned there transformed her heart, and today, Coreen has a lasting peace. She's baptized and part of a nurturing church family. Now you, friend, have an opportunity to help someone today and to make an eternal difference for more people like Coreen.
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Announcer: Do you want to know God's plan for our world and solutions for your life's challenges? Beautifully redesigned, Amazing Facts 27 Bible study guides providing encouraging Bible-based answers to questions on healthier relationships, when Jesus will return, and much more. Prefer to watch while you read? Our brand-new Prophesy Encounters DVD series makes the perfect companion set. Order your study guides and DVDs today by visiting afbookstore.com, or by calling 800-538-7275.
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Announcer: Every Bible question you have answered moves you one step closer to the fullness of God's will for your life, so what are you waiting for? Get the answers you need for a fuller, richer, more confident life. You're listening to Bible Answers Live. This broadcast is a previously recorded episode. If you'd like answers to your Bible-related questions on the air, please call us next Sunday between 7:00 PM and 8:00 PM Pacific Time. To receive any of the Bible resources mentioned in this evening's program, call 800-835-6747. Once again, that's 800-835-6747. Now, let's join Pastors Doug Batchelor and Jean Ross for more Bible answers live.
Pastor Doug: Welcome back, listening friends, to Bible answers live and if you've tuned in somewhere along the way, this is, of course, a live international interactive Bible study. We invite you to call in with your Bible questions and that number is 800-463-7297, that'll bring your call into the studio. One more time, 800-263-7297. If you don't get through right away, that he that endures to the end will get through, so don't give up, our operators are taking the calls when we line people up. I want to also welcome our friends that are watching on Facebook. We know some of you are watching because we can tell from the calls.
We want to greet you and that's just on the Doug Batchelor public Facebook site, he'll be able to look and see whatever it is, you'll see us here in the studio. We're not dressed in our tuxedos, but this is how it looks when we do the radio program. My name is Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Pastor Doug, before the break, we were talking to Michael about, well, is it okay for a Christian to listen to non-Christian music?
Pastor Doug: Michael, are you still there?
Michael: Sure I am.
Pastor Doug: Of course, the best thing is that you-- Where is it? In Ephesians, Paul says speaking to yourself in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs we can encourage ourselves. God's got a hymnal in the Bible, it's called the Book of Psalms. David wrote about 70 of them, there's 150 Psalms, so there's a lot of beautiful music in the Christian traditions that supports scripture. Now there's some things that people call Christian music and they'll just say one or two words over and over again and it's almost like eastern meditation and sometimes they put it to hypnotic music and I almost feel like that's anti-Christian or anti-productive music for Christian. Just because someone calls something Christian music doesn't always mean it is Christian music.
Pastor Ross: There is some good music out there that might not be specifically Christian, but it's good music. I sit in my car and I have these preset radio stations and have two classical musical stations, I like that. They've got some great music.
Pastor Doug: That's good thinking music.
Pastor Ross: I know, you want it in the background. Those are things that I think are good. Here's the verse you're referring to, Pastor Doug, Ephesians 5:19, saying, "Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord."
Pastor Doug: Amen. Now, Mike, I have a series you can listen to for free online if you just go to the Amazing Facts website or YouTube; Doug Batchelor. Music and the Christian is what I think it's titled. Music and the Christian, I think it's a two-part series and I go through the principles of music. That's what you want is principles, you don't want a preacher saying this is a good song, that's a bad song because you've got to be able to think for yourself.
Pastor Ross: The next caller that we have is Shawn listening from Illinois. Shawn, welcome to the program.
Pastor Doug: Do we have Shawn?
Pastor Ross: Shawn from Illinois?
Pastor Doug: Shawn may have his mute on, sometimes they don't realize it. Shawn going once. Shawn was waiting patiently, going twice.
Pastor Ross: All right, we might come back to Shawn.
Pastor Doug: Shawn from Illinois, one more time. All right, I guess not.
Pastor Ross: All right, we'll come back. We've got Yuri listening from Missouri. Yuri, welcome to the program.
Yuri: Hey, can you hear me?
Pastor Doug: Yes.
Pastor Ross: Yes.
Yuri: Hey, Pastor Jean and Pastor Doug. Kind of cool because you guys already talked in the beginning a little bit about Satan and the devil being the same creature. The question is pretty simple, how do we really can prove from the Bible that Satan and Lucifer are the same person?
Pastor Doug: That actually is more difficult. There's only one place that you find the word Lucifer if I'm not mistaken, Pastor Ross, and that's Isaiah 14. I think the word Lucifer is coming from a word morning star or morning light. It's making it pretty clear that here is this fallen angel, just read the context, "How you were falling from Heaven, Lucifer son of the morning," and I think it starts with verse 12.
Pastor Ross: Yes, well, verse 12, "How you fallen from heaven, oh, Lucifer son of the morning. How you were cut down to the ground." Here's a key, "You who weaken the nations." Of course, we know the devil is referred to by Christ as the prince of this world. Then it talks about how you sit in your heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I'll exalt myself above the stars
of God, I'll be like the most high," and so on. You look at the characteristics given, it's the characteristics of Satan, characteristics of the devil.
Pastor Doug: Yes, and I think the word for Lucifer comes from the Hebrew word, it means morning star. The actual word is helel and it means a star in the sense of its brightness, he was a bright angel. You can read about that also in Ezekiel 28, it talks about covering every precious stone, a beautiful angel. That's the only way you can prove that Lucifer is the devil as you just read the context of chapter 14. Now we do have a steady guide that goes into more detail, it has all the scriptures on this subject that people want to know about understanding the enemy so they can resist his temptations, then get our study guide, Did God Create a Devil?
Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask the study guide called Did God Create a Devil? We'll be happy to send that to anybody who calls and asks. Again, friends, I want to remind you, you can sign up for free for the Amazing Facts online correspondence school. You can do it online or you can actually do it the old-fashioned way through the mail, but you'll learn much as we goes through those lessons.
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Pastor Ross: The next caller that we have is, looks like we've got Gary listening in Illinois. Gary, welcome to the program.
Gary: Hello. Hi, pastors.
Pastor Doug: Hi, thank you for calling.
Gary: Hi. Doug, I just wanted to tell you real fast that two years ago, I ran across one of your videos on YouTube, it caught my attention. I watched it all the way through and right towards the end of the video, I broke down in tears. I could feel the hair standing up on my neck. Your sermon literally woke up the spiritualness in me, and I have been, for two years now, following God every single day. There's not a day that goes by I don't think of Him.
Pastor Doug: Amen.
Gary: I open my eyes ad I think about Him and-
Pastor Ross: That's the kind of testimony we like to hear.
Gary: - it's because I listen to you. Thanks to you, you brought me to God and He's well in my life right now.
Pastor Doug: That's a thrill, thank you.
Gary: One other thing is funny as I called 20 times and got a busy signal before I was able to get through. After the 20th time, I got on my knees, I took a break from calling and calling and calling back. I took a break for a minute and I prayed to God, I said, "If it's your will, Lord, I'd really like to talk to this pastor. I just find that amazing that I can talk to him now and if it's your will, " and you know what? I got done praying, saying amen, I called and the phone was ringing.
Pastor Doug: I believe in prayer.
Gary: He answered my prayer instantly.
Pastor Doug: Now I'm really excited to hear the question after all that.
Gary: Okay, now here's my question. I've got my King James version study Bible open right now, it's brand new, I paid $80 for it at Barnes and Noble. I've been doing the research now for two years researching and reading and praying, going to church and stuff faithfully on the Sabbath day and all that good stuff, well, there's 75 different verses in the Bible that describes the creation of the earth. Even in Genesis, the second day, God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters and let it divide the waters from the waters." God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament and the waters which were above the firmament.
I watch a lot of your sermons, I noticed in a lot of the backgrounds you have a round globe and I just wanted to ask you what your thoughts are on a flat earth because everything that I'm finding describes the earth as round from a bird's eye view with ice walls surrounding the oceans and there is actually a crystal-like dome overhead called the firmament and outside the dome is water. Therefore, space and NASA and all that stuff they're saying is a lie, there's no outer space.
Pastor Doug: Let me jump in here and just share with you and I've heard this. I'll be very honest with you, when I first heard somebody share this, I was surprised because I grew up a pilot, my dad was a pilot in World War II, my sons were pilots. I've flown all over the world. Pastor Ross and I leave for India next week I guess.
Pastor Ross: In a week.
Pastor Doug: In about a week and it is just about the other side of the planet from where we are in California. I can guarantee you that the world is round. I know I've heard some very interesting theories that the world is actually flat. Where it tells us that there's a firmament that separates the waters below from the waters above, that's, of course, describing the world before the flood when it never rained. The environment was very different, there was probably a polarizing, even cloud of waters or something around the world before the flood, they could see through it and see the sun, moon, and stars. We know from the planet and the fossils that there were very tropical regions in Siberia. There were ferns growing up there and a lot of oil that is now there because of all the vegetation, so the world has gone through a radical change from what you see described there in Genesis. The Bible says that God hangs the earth on nothing. It talks about the circle of the earth. I don't believe that this is a big plot from Hollywood. I don't know what the point of it would be to try and prove that there really is space. A matter of fact, one of the astronauts was a friend of our church and he really did go to the moon. He didn't walk on the moon, but he was in the Lunar Orbiter. I just would have to respectfully disagree with the flat earth series.
Pastor Ross: If you look at the world, as Pastor Doug mentioned, the world was quite different before the flood when the Bible speaks of the windows of heaven being opened. Some feel that prior to that, there was a layer of water, probably ice, the shield surrounding the earth kept the earth somewhat tropical, a lot more tropical than it is now. When the flood came, where did all the water come from? A large portion of that came from this canopy that surrounded the earth. There is some very good scientific explanations for a lot of the things that we see in the world today, and the solution for that being the flood.
Pastor Doug: I don't think that Elon Musk and Space X just staged this whole thing where they sent the largest rocket. There were so many witnesses there into space and he had GoPro cameras that are still streaming it right now. I think it's real. Anyway, but I appreciate your question and praise the Lord for your conversion, brother. We probably ought to get another caller.
Pastor Ross: The next call that we have is, it looks like Jonathan is calling from Canada. Jonathan, welcome to the program.
Jonathan: Hi.
Pastor Doug: Hi, thanks for calling.
Jonathan: It's nice to be speaking with you, Pastor Doug.
Pastor Doug: Your question.
Jonathan: I just got reconnected with my birth father probably less than a year ago after he walked out many years ago. A small bit of background before I get to the question. I was raised in a Baptist family and I grew up pretty much my childhood and my teen years going to Baptist churches. The older I got, I guess you could say the more cynical I got to a lot of the teachings and I backslid. Then when I came back to the phase, it was more of a radical experience of God revealing creation to me in a new way, and so I started to study the Bible more and a friend of mine who was a Seventh Day Adventist, she started talking to me about the Sabbath.
I looked into it further and I ended up getting baptized in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, but this reconnection with my father has brought more heat than before. It's no longer a grudge, him being angry and me being angry, it's now almost a battle of what the true Sabbath is. Now, I know based on Scripture and I've watched many of your programs, if not all of them, dealing with the Sabbath. I write down the verses, if not, I try to memorize some. I'm not really good at remembering vocations, but there's just a couple that stuck out to me. Now, I usually argue with the Bible and sometimes she'll argue with the Bible, but very rarely it seems more like an opinionated side from tradition about the suffering.
The two verses that really caught my attention was Galatians 3:8, where it says, "The Scripture foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith preached before the gospel unto Abraham saying in thee shall all nations be blessed." Then you go over to Mark 2:27, I believe it's Jesus speaking and he said unto them, "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath." Now, he didn't jump into the next verse, which--
Pastor Doug: We're going to run out of time, brother. We need to turn it into a question I can answer. I hear where you're going, but we need to summarize this.
Jonathan: My question is it gets into a heated argument and I know there's a lot of verses out there that get misunderstood and use to justify Sunday. What is the more loving way I can introduce the Sabbath to him slowly but gradually without it becoming a heated debate?
Pastor Doug: From what you're telling me, I think that you ought to right now drop the subject. I know you might think that's a strange thing, but if you guys are getting hot and arguing about it, then the whole spirit of the subject is lost because the Lord wants us, first of all, to just do everything in love. You can't force someone to believe something. If you and your father are having a disagreement and it gets hot and you're finding yourself arguing about your respective positions, I think the best thing to do is just live out your faith, show your peace, do not feel that you are compelled to convince your father. When he's open, there's only three things you can do to share truth with people.
One is be a good witness, the other is if they're open, you share information, and the third thing is you pray. Right now from what you're saying, I think you ought to do point two and three, pray and be a good witness. It doesn't seem like when you share information, it seems like he's entrenched in his belief, you obviously are firm about your beliefs. The verse in Galatians I don't really see as a problem. Just what you said, the Sabbath was made for man, Christ is referring back to the Garden of Eden. That word there is talking about humanity, mankind, not one race of people, so that I think is further endorsement, but you've probably seen all the information that we have on the subject. I think one of the best things is we've got a website.
Pastor Ross: Yes, it's called sabbathtruth.com and it's got a lot more information of video, also some Bible studies there. I think you'll find that helpful to anyone wanting to learn more about what the Bible has to say about the Sabbath.
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Pastor Ross: The next caller that we have is, let's see, we have Mario listening in Canada. Mario, welcome to the program.
Mario: Hello. Good evening, Pastor Doug.
Pastor Doug: Good evening, thank you for calling, Mario.
Mario: Oh, I have my question, then I would have a follow-up question, Pastor Doug if you wouldn't mind.
Pastor Doug: Let's hear the first question.
Mario: The first question is, is believing in Jesus a requirement for salvation?
Pastor Doug: I'll tell you, the Bible tells us in the book of Acts, "There is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved." There may be some people in the Old Testament times and others that did not know about Jesus that lived up to the light that God gave them, but if a person is presented in Christ, they're not going to be saved by Buddha. Buddha is not a savior and they're not going to be saved by Muhammad. What is your follow-up question? I'm just wondering where you're heading with this.
Mario: My follow-up question is this, there could be some, there could be a possibility that there could be some people who have never heard anything about Jesus, what would happen to them when Jesus comes back?
Pastor Doug: Okay, I see what you're saying. That is a reasonable question. Let me just put it this way. I've been to Australia and I went out to the out back, way out where the Aborigines are still living. There were thousands of years where there were no missionaries talking to them about Jesus or you could have people in North America, South America, Africa who just a millennia went by. They never really heard a missionary come. Does that mean all those multiplied millions of people that never had an opportunity to hear about Christ, are they all automatically lost?
I'd say no because there are going to be some people who are saved because they lived up to the light that God gave them either through the Holy spirit or through angels. Most people who are not hearing about Jesus won't know. That's why we do send missionaries just because most people will be lost without a knowledge of the gospel. You can read in Romans 1, I think, Pastor Ross, where he says that God speaks to even the hidden. There's a law written in their hearts that if they follow the law that God has given them in their hearts and in their conscience, they may find grace from God to believe and be saved by faith.
Pastor Ross: That's Romans 2:15.
Pastor Doug: Then Christ said many will come from the east and the west and sit down in the kingdom with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jesus talked about a Gentile woman that believed through the influence of Elijah and a Syrian general that was converted through the influence of Elisha. Of course, they heard about the true God, but I think there's some people that maybe are going to believe the message preached to them through angels. Hebrews says, "Some have entertained angels unaware." There may be some exceptions. I think preachers need to be careful about saying automatically that everybody who did not hear from a missionary is automatically lost. I think that's reckless. Thank you, a good question.
Pastor Ross: The next caller that we have is Cindy from Florida. Cindy, welcome to Bible Answers Live.
Cindy: Hi, Pastor Ross, hi, Pastor Doug, thank you for taking my call.
Pastor Doug: Hi, Cindy, thank you for calling.
Cindy: I was wondering if God has forgiveness for us, why did he not ever forgive Satan of his sins?
Pastor Doug: We don't know. There's a limit to God's forgiveness for us first of all. God is very merciful, He's very patient, but obviously, a lot of people are going to be lost because they did not embrace His mercy. We don't know how long it was that Satan was stirring things up in heaven before he was finally evicted. I think God maybe had mercy on him.
Pastor Ross: There's a condition of forgiveness and it's true no matter who the person is. We need to repent. We need to acknowledge our sin, we need to come with a humble heart. The devil, as far as we know, never came with repentance.
Pastor Doug: He's too proud.
Pastor Ross: He never acknowledged his sin. He's hardened his heart, almost like Pharaoh back in the days of the exodus where every time the plagues stopped, he would just rebel again. That's kind of where Satan's at, he has gone past the point of no return.
Pastor Doug: Ultimately, the Pharaoh got baptized in the sea.
Pastor Ross: In the river.
Pastor Doug: It was nuts, yes.
Pastor Ross: All kind of baptism.
Pastor Doug: Exactly. I think God may have shown a lot of patience with Lucifer and given him opportunity to humble himself and repent and I think other angels tried to reason with him and he hardened his heart and there's nothing more God can do. He ultimately grieved away the Holy Spirit and did what is referred to as committing the unpardonable sin. I've actually got a book on the unpardonable sin. I think I asked that question, can the devil be forgiven?
Pastor Ross: I think it's called Beyond Mercy.
Pastor Doug: Beyond Mercy is the book, and then it says, the subtitle, what is the unpardonable sin?
Pastor Ross: The number to call is 800-835-6747. You can ask for the book called Beyond Mercy. It's on the unpardonable sin. We'll be happy to send that to anybody who calls and asks. Our next caller is, let's see, Ruth listening in Massachusetts. Ruth, welcome to the program.
Ruth: Hi. I have a question regarding Proverbs 17:9. Can you clarify for me in there the word transgression?
Pastor Doug: All right, Proverbs 17:9, going there right now and it says, "He who covers a transgression seeks love, but he who repeats a matter separates friends." Jesus said, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." Solomon here in Proverbs is saying if you're aware of a friend who's made a mistake, don't advertise it. Or if maybe they've been talking about somebody else, don't repeat it because you will separate friends. Just be quiet about it. We don't need to repeat every ill-advised thing someone has said because it causes separation. I think he's talking about being gracious, not gossiping, and causing separation of friends. If someone says something unkind or uncharitable, don't repeat it to somebody else.
Ruth: Thank you.
Pastor Doug: All right, a good question. I haven't had that one for a while and I think people need to hear that.
Pastor Ross: The next caller that we have is Dan listening from New Jersey. Dan, welcome to the program.
Dan: Thank you. I'm glad to be on the program. My question is when the rapture comes, will people who practice the Sunday Sabbath, will they not have any chance of being raptured?
Pastor Doug: First of all, when the rapture happens, you're talking about the second coming of the Lord?
Dan: The next coming.
Pastor Doug: Yes. In the last days before Jesus returns, I think there's going to be a big shaking in the world. There's going to be a time of trouble and there's also, at the same time, going to be a great revival so that everybody in the world is going to be in one group or another. I think that everybody's going to either be following the faith that was once delivered to the saints or they're going to be following the beast. You're only going to have two groups, I think, when Jesus comes back. They're telling us in the studio we've got one minute left. I don't know if we could squeeze in. Probably it wouldn't be fair to do that, another question. That was a question.
Pastor Ross: Just to follow up on that question a little bit there, too, the Bible speaks of God's people at the end of timekeeping His commandments. I think throughout history, God has had faithful men and women who have lived up to all the light that they have. God judges us based upon what we know, but there is a great revelation of light right before Jesus comes. Revelation 18 talks about this angel flying in the midst of heaven crying with a loud voice, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen." We're talking about symbols here, but a special message of revival goes out just before the end. That's going to be an exciting time where true followers are going to make their stand on Bible truth.
Pastor Doug: Hey, thank you very much, listening friends. There is more every day at amazingfacts.org, God willing we'll talk again next week.