A Life-size Noah's Ark

Life-sized models of giraffes, elephants, lions, crocodiles, zebras, and bison are included in the ark's interior. Even with all the animals, it still has room for a 50-seat theater, where the story of Noah's flood is retold. Eventually, there will even be a petting zoo with baby lambs, and chickens, goats, and one camel.

The total cost of the project was an estimated $1.2 million dollars. Johan also built the ark as a testament to his literal belief in the Bible. He said, "This will speak very much to children because it will give them something tangible to see that Noah's ark really existed." Assisted by his son, the 47-year old contractor spent nearly two years building the ark by the water in Schagen, 30 miles north of Amsterdam.

As far as possible, he had tried to remain true to the ark's proportions described in the Bible; but Johan's ark is constructed with American Cedar and Norwegian Pine, rather than the Gopher wood. Biblical scholars still aren't exactly sure what kind of wood that was.

When the ark opened its doors in April 2007, visitors were stunned by its size, and think the Netherlands is probably the right place for an ark to be built. With all the talk of global warming, some fear Holland is going to be the first place flooded if polar caps melt much faster.

Johan's ark is a fully-functional model, and will even meet all the naval, fire, and animal rights regulations. Mr. Huibers plans to sail the ark through the interior waters around Holland. He's praying this colossal exhibit will help renew interest in Christianity in the Netherlands, which has dramatically fallen in the past 50 years.

So, the big question is, will there be another global flood before Jesus returns? Stay with us friends. We're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.

[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]

PASTOR DOUG: This is one of my favorite hours of the week, when we get together with our friends who are all across North America, indeed via the Internet around the world, who would like to listen in or call in with Bible questions. And right now we do have some lines still open.

If you have a Bible question, it is a free phone call. Keep a pencil handy because we also have some free offers we like to make available. That number again is, 1-800-GOD-SAYS, 1-800-463-7297. We'd love to have you participate in tonight's program. And my name is Doug Batchelor.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: My name is Jëan Ross. Good evening listening friends. Good evening Pastor Doug.

PASTOR DOUG: Good evening.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Before we go into the questions this evening, let's start with prayer. Dear Father, once more, as we open up Your word, we ask for the Holy Spirit to be with us. Be with those who are listening across the country and around the world. And we pray that they might find Bible answers to the questions that they have. We ask this all in Jesus' name, amen.

PASTOR DOUG: Amen!

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: You opened the program with an amazing fact about a modern Noah, somebody who built an ark in the Netherlands. And the question is, "Well, will the world be flooded before Jesus comes? What type of final destruction is in store? Is there a final destruction?"

PASTOR DOUG: You know, there is a lot of talk with the global warming. Some have said that many of the seaside cities could be flooded. If the polar caps should suddenly melt, it would rise 30 feet. That would endanger a number of places, but it certainly won't be a global flood.

And, of course, we have the promise in Genesis chapter 9 after the flood, God said, "I will never again destroy the earth with a flood"--of water that is. But if you read in 2nd Peter chapter 3, and verses 5 through verse 7, it talks about Noah's flood. Peter here is speaking about those who doubt the return of the Lord.

He said, "For this they are willingly ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

In other words, back in the days of Noah, God destroyed the wicked in the world with water, a flood of water; and the redeemed, the remnant, was preserved in an ark. In the last days, the Bible talks about fire raining down from heaven in a lake of fire that covers the surface of the earth; and at that point, the ransomed, the redeemed, the remnant, is in the New Jerusalem--another kind of ark of safety.

So there is going to be another flood, but not a flood of water. It's going to be a flood of fire. God is going to wash the earth with fire; and I guess you would call that global warming.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: (Laughs) To the extreme!

PASTOR DOUG: (Laughs)

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Okay, well we have a free offer dealing with the subject of what happens when Jesus comes, or how the earth is going to be cleansed. It's called, Last Day On Earth, written by Joe Crews. It's a free offer. Anyone listening would like to receive this, all they'll need to do is call the resource number, 1-800-835-6747. Ask for that free offer, Last Day On Earth.

PASTOR DOUG: You know, Jesus said that the second coming will be, He said, "As it was in the days of Noah and as it was in the days of Lot." And this book makes some striking parallels about the days of Noah, the days of Lot, and the day in which we live. And the people living in the day of Noah, life went on right up until the flood.

And the people in Lot's time, when it was destroyed with fire, life went on right up until the day that Lot escaped, and then the end came. I think people think there's going to be plenty of warning in the headlines before the end comes. Jesus said it's going to take the world as a thief, as a surprise. So we need to be ready. Now we can't get ready at the last minute. So I recommend they send for this book; what will it look like, the last day on earth.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Okay, well we have a few questions that's coming via the Internet, by email. The first one: Pastor Doug, I want to know if the trinity is a true Bible teaching, or is it an addition made by man?

PASTOR DOUG: Well, some people are confused because the word "trinity" does not appear in the Bible. It's a descriptive term. Of course, I remind people the word "bible" does not appear in the Bible either. That's a Latin word; it means collection of books, from "biblios." Trinity, it's like, "try." A tricycle has three wheels. "Trinity" means, the three entities of God the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

The teaching of those three entitles is certainly in the Bible. And we get a lot of questions on the nature of God and the trinity; and doesn't the Bible say there is one God? Well yeah, there is one God. A man and woman get married, they become one flesh, but they're still two individuals.

And unlike the pagans who believe there was a god of the rivers, and a god of the bushes, and a god of the sky, and the sun, and all these different gods that were warring among themselves, our God, the God of the Bible, is one God, meaning He is united. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit. That's a teaching that is in the Old Testament.

Right at the beginning, God said, "Let Us make man in Our Image." So if we have friends that have questions about that subject, I can go on and on. The best thing would be for them to go to our website and read the book--it's our new website; they need to look at amazingfacts.org--called, The Trinity. Or we'll send you a copy.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Just call the resource number, again, 1-800-835-6747; ask for the book on the Trinity. We'll be happy to send that out to you. Pastor Doug, the next question has to do with Romans chapter 14, and it's verse 2 and 3.

And this person writes...it says here that, "I will be received by God if I eat all things with thanksgiving, for the kingdom of God is not meat or drink, but righteousness." And I think they're referring to some of the comments that were made concerning clean and unclean foods.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, any of our friends who are listening to this program on an ongoing basis know that, periodically, we get questions on what the Bible says about health and diet. And they're surprised to learn the Bible does say there are some things you shouldn't eat, and things that are better to eat.

It's Biblical guidelines of what is clean and unclean. Of course, many Christians argue that when Jesus died on the cross, that it no longer matters what we eat because of verses like these in Romans 14. But they're misapplying the statements of Paul. Paul is talking not at all about the substance of the food, he's talking about food that had been offered to idols.

And he's saying that if a food is butchered in the marketplace and they offer it to some Roman or Greek deity, and you go and buy it at the market, that did not make that chicken, or that cow, or that goat unclean. You don't get the demons in you from eating it. But that did not mean that a Christian could pray over anything without consequences and God's going to bless whatever crawls across our plate.

Some people use it that way. God says, "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. What a person sows, he will also reap." And if we know that something has got too much sugar in it, or it has got too much cholesterol in it, we can't just say, "Well I'm going to pray over it and I'm going to tempt the Lord." That's not good thinking.

So there are still things that God says in His word are clean and unclean, good, and not good; and some things are good, better, and best. Others are forbidden. In the Bible, if they want to know what these distinctions are, we've got that lesson we could offer on God's Free Health Plan.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: That's right. I was just thinking of that. It's an Amazing Facts study guide that deals in detail with the subject. To receive it, call the resource line, 1-800-835-6747, ask for the study guide, God's Free Health Plan.

PASTOR DOUG: I think our friends would be surprised how much the Bible really says about a lot of [cross talk]. If America would follow these guidelines, we wouldn't have the health crisis we have right now.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Absolutely. We're going to go to the phone lines. Our first caller tonight is someone who's been holding on. Darryl, welcome; listening from Toronto, Canada.

DARRYL: Hi Pastors, good evening.

PASTOR DOUG: Good evening, how can we help you?

DARRYL: Thank you very much for taking my call. I have a question regarding children, especially under five. Pastor, when Jesus will come, how they will be judged?

PASTOR DOUG: Well first of all, any child before that age of accountability, they're not going to be held as accountable. I mean obviously, if a baby is born and they're six months old, they don't have the consciousness of knowing what is right or wrong, in that respect.

All of us are born with the sinful tendencies of a selfish nature, but that's different from having a record of sin by going against what we know as right or wrong. Some Pastors try to pinpoint an age where, once you have your twelfth birthday or your ninth birthday, you pass the age of accountability; and then you're responsible for your actions. But the Bible doesn't really give us a specific age.

You know, the Jews used to say that when a boy became 12, then he would go to the temple as Jesus did, but really, God looks on the heart; and different children mature at different times. If a child should die before that age of accountability, they're not going to be judged for a record of sin, because the Lord looks on the heart. And my belief is that it varies from child to child.

And indeed, Darryl, there are people who, because of some birth defect or brain damage, they might be 30 years old and they have some handicap, they never understand. So is the Lord going to judge them the same way that He would judge an adult who does understand?

DARRYL: What if, like, one of the parents, one is with the Lord 100%, and the other one is, like, 50%, so what--

PASTOR DOUG: Well there's definitely a sanctifying influence by having believing parents. You can say, alright, here you've got in 1st Corinthians chapter 7, for an example. It says, "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife; and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now they are holy."

In other words, parents can intercede in behalf of their children before the age of accountability, even after. Job interceded for his children every day. So there is a sanctifying influence that the parents have, especially before those children reach the age of accountability.

Once they reach the age of accountability, God says in Ezekiel 18, "The son will not bear the iniquity of a father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son", then they're responsible.

DARRYL: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: In our culture right now, everybody is so preoccupied with blaming someone else for their behavior. We're all victims. "I can't help the way I am because, you know, if my mother didn't overeat, I wouldn't. It's my mother's fault." "And I can't help my temper because my dad had a temper. It's his fault."

And once you get to a certain age, it's not their fault anymore. Sometimes we have to take responsibility.

DARRYL: Yeah

PASTOR DOUG: But before that age of accountability, whatever that age is, there's a sanctifying influence of the parents; and even if there's one believing parent, as we just read here in 1st Corinthians 7.

DARRYL: Yeah

PASTOR DOUG: Does that make sense?

DARRYL: Even one parent is, like, with the Lord, so when the Christ will come, so will the kids will be with that parent in heaven?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah--let me give you as straight an answer as I can. I believe that if you have a husband and a wife, one believes and one doesn't, and the children are below the age of accountability--

DARRYL: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: --that if the Lord comes and one parent is saved, through the influence of that saved parent, the children will be saved.

DARRYL: Oh

PASTOR DOUG: Is that your understanding Pastor Ross? And that they'll find them in the Kingdom.

DARRYL: Alright. Pastor, I have a request. Is there any guide to train the children?

PASTOR DOUG: Well that is a good question. You know, what I would recommend, I think we do have some family products at our website. In our library of free resources we give out--I don't know that we have anything that comes to mind--but if you'd go to the Amazing Facts website, I know that we've got a number of family resources.

And we just rebuilt that whole section of our website with all new stuff. That's why we're not even sure. We've just expanded it. I don't remember everything there now, but I know there's a family section.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: I know we have a lot of resources in the library, in the online library.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: And if they look through that, I'm sure there will be something on raising children.

PASTOR DOUG: --raising children and family, yeah

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: There would be good counsel.

PASTOR DOUG: We've got like 500 titles, so it's hard to remember them all.

DARRYL: Oh okay. I'll, for sure, go and look for that.

PASTOR DOUG: Alright. God bless, Darryl.

DARRYL: God bless you. Thank you so much for answering my question.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: You're welcome. Our next caller is Joseph, listening on WMCA from New York, New York. Joseph, welcome to the program.

JOSEPH: Good evening Pastor Batchelor and Pastor Ross. What I want to ask is, the virgin Mary was the mother of Jesus. And Jesus was part of the Godhead--

PASTOR DOUG: Yes

JOSEPH: --Three being One. Doesn't that automatically make her the mother of God, Jesus being God in the Godhead?

PASTOR DOUG: Well, not in the sense that she has authority over Him. You see what I'm saying? When Christ was on the earth as a child, it says He was subject to His parents. Matter of fact, it uses that term, when He went back to Jerusalem, 12 years old, He said He submitted to His parents, He was subject to them.

But as Christ entered into manhood, His mother, once or twice, told Him what to do, and He said, "Who is My mother and My brother and My sister? But those that hear the word of God and do it, they are My mother and My brother and My sister." And then again, when Mary came to Jesus at the wedding feast and was trying to urge Him to do something, He said, "Woman, it's not my time yet."

And so, was Mary the mother of Jesus? Absolutely. Is she the mother of God, as though she has some authority equal to or over Him? No. There's a distinction there.

JOSEPH: I didn't mean with authority, Pastor. I just meant as His mother.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah. I'm just being careful how I'm answering that because some people interpret Mary the mother of God as she's to be worshiped in that capacity.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: I mean, the question you need to ask yourself is, did God exist before Mary? And if yes, God existed before Mary, then how could Mary be the one who gives life to God?

PASTOR DOUG: That's really a good question.

JOSEPH: Well she gave birth to Him on earth, correct?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, Mary was the one through which the Incarnation took place.

JOSEPH: Correct.

PASTOR DOUG: But He was God before Mary was born.

JOSEPH: Are you denying that she was His mother?

PASTOR DOUG: No. Mary was the mother of Jesus.

JOSEPH: Okay.

PASTOR DOUG: But when you call her the "mother of God," that almost makes it sound like she brought forth God.

JOSEPH: I don't mean that she was the mother of the Father or the Holy Spirit. They existed long before she was on earth. But if she was the mother of Jesus--

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah--no question. She was the mother of Jesus; and Jesus is--

JOSEPH: And if He is part of the Godhead, and if He constitutes One, doesn't that automatically make her the mother of God, He being a part of the Godhead?

PASTOR DOUG: You can argue that with semantics. In other words, you're saying, "Well you know if A + B = C, then you must have"--

JOSEPH: I'm not trying to be semantic Pastor.

PASTOR DOUG: No, I know. I'm just, I'm telling you, Joseph--

JOSEPH: I'm not trying to be cleaver. I'm just trying to ask an honest question.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Yeah. We also need to remember that Jesus existed prior to the Incarnation. So, in a sense, God gave Mary the great privilege of bearing Christ, but Jesus existed before Mary.

JOSEPH: So what is your answer? Is it no? Is your answer no?

PASTOR DOUG: No. This is one of those answers where I'm telling you right up front. A yes or no is not clear.

JOSEPH: Okay. That's an answer.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah--it's definitely...This is a mystery. And that's why we're kind of dancing around.

JOSEPH: Yes it is. I think that's why I'm asking you.

PASTOR DOUG: The Incarnation, how God becomes a baby, is a mystery. And we just need to be careful not to make it sound like--and I know many dear people call Mary the mother of God--but the context in which they say that almost makes it sound like that she's to be revered, or on an equal level. Mary--

JOSEPH: That's not what I meant by the question though Pastor.

PASTOR DOUG: No, I understand. Mary is the mother of Jesus, no question [cross talk]. But here's the question. When Jesus was a baby, what God powers did He possess? Did Jesus, as a baby, have all the knowledge of the cosmos floating around in His head, or did He have to learn to talk like other babies?

JOSEPH: I'm listening.

PASTOR DOUG: Does that make sense? So Jesus had to learn to talk, and Mary probably had to clean Him up once or twice a day, or more, like other babies.

JOSEPH: Yes, she was a regular mother.

PASTOR DOUG: So some people, I think, forget the human side of Christ. Jesus, in Colossians chapter 2, says He laid aside His divinity when He became a man, and He humbled Himself and became a man. So, Christ is God the Son, but He veiled His divinity in humanity when He was on the earth. I don't know if we're helping you with your answer. Mary was the mother--

JOSEPH: Not really, but I do value your opinions very much. But no, no you haven't answered it; but maybe not answering it is the answer.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, it's a mystery.

JOSEPH: Yeah okay. But I value with respect both you gentlemen.

PASTOR DOUG: Thank you very much Joseph

[cross talk]

JOSEPH: Thank you so much and God bless you both.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: God bless you. Alright. Our next caller is another Joseph, listening from Savannah, Georgia. Welcome to the program, Joseph.

JOSEPH: Hello Pastors.

PASTOR DOUG: Hi, how can we help you?

JOSEPH: Alright, well I listen to the show. My question, in relation to deja vu experiences, I know a lot of people have deja vu experiences, and I know I have them myself. I have them quite often, and uh, it's like you've seen something before, and you know you've seen it before.

PASTOR DOUG: Uh-huh

JOSEPH: And I also have other experiences where I have something come to mind, and next thing I know, that happens.

PASTOR DOUG: Right

JOSEPH: In regards to deja vu experiences, what do you think the spiritual significance of that is; because of me and my opinion, I see it as maybe God showing people that He knows the future and that He exists. And I just think it's, like, just really that simple. But uh, because for most, for me, most deja vu experiences are very simple. They're not, you know, it's like, it's nothing really important.

PASTOR DOUG: The future is not being revealed. I think I understand what you're saying.

JOSEPH: Uh-huh

PASTOR DOUG: There are three things that might contribute to that; and I've had those experiences. Maybe Pastor Ross has. You walk somewhere where you know you've never been there before, but all of a sudden, it seems like, "I've been here before."

JOSEPH: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: I had a doctor explain to me that one reason that people have those experiences of deja vu--I don't know what that means in French, but it means something; but it means like, you know, a repeat of experience, I suppose--is your mind works so quickly. I mean, the speed of the human brain, there's still no processor that can do what the human brain does.

And a doctor explained to me that, sometimes, because our minds work so quickly, you'll smell something, see something, go somewhere, hear music, move into a room, and you'll say, "Wow, this is familiar!" Because what happened is, your subconscious took the whole experience in and stored it before your conscious recognized it.

JOSEPH: Umph!

PASTOR DOUG: Now that's one thing. But sometimes people have a dream, and then a week later then they see this place, or this room, or this person. I think sometimes, like you said, God might be saying, "Look, I know the future and I'm just going to show you I know the future, because I'm going to show you something that's going to happen a week from now."

JOSEPH: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: And that could be another reason. So they're not related, um, there are probably two or three reasons that people have those experiences. And of course, I know people who have been shown things in vision, you know, prophets; and they didn't realize what it was they saw in vision until the event happened. And they said, "God showed me this."

JOSEPH: Right, um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: So um, it could be that, you know, that occasion.

JOSEPH: So it makes sure a scientific/spiritual--

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, well you know, it's like dreams. Some dreams come from the Lord; some dreams come from the devil, nightmares. And some dreams are just a multitude of business your brain is defragmenting.

JOSEPH: Right, just neutral huh?

PASTOR DOUG: It just scrambles things--yeah, it doesn't mean anything. It's a chemical, a physiological occurrence.

JOSEPH: Right

PASTOR DOUG: So, deja vu probably falls under those same three categories.

JOSEPH: Interesting, okay.

PASTOR DOUG: Alright? That's just a layman's opinion. I don't really have a verse to give you.

JOSEPH: I understand. It sounds good.

PASTOR DOUG: Alright

JOSEPH: I know there's a verse in the Bible where Solomon talks about, how does he put it, dreams are um, uh--

PASTOR DOUG: "Dreams come through the multitude of business" or?

JOSEPH: Right, I think that's one. I think there's also--there's another one also--where he talks about dreams being messages from God. Of course, that's throughout the Bible though. That's--

[Cross talk]

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, in Joel chapter 2, it says, "Old men will dream dreams." So--

JOSEPH: Right, um-mm

PASTOR DOUG: --that means if I live a little longer, I'll be qualified [Laughter]. Hey, I hope that helps a little Joseph.

JOSEPH: Yes sir. Thank you very much.

PASTOR DOUG: God bless you.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Max is listening on the Internet from Brooklyn, New York, Max, welcome to the program.

MAX: Hi, good evening Pastor Doug, Pastor Ross.

PASTOR DOUG: Good evening

MAX: Yes, my question comes from John chapter 20, verse 17--

PASTOR DOUG: Uh-huh

MAX: --where Jesus says to Mary, "Do not touch Me; for I have not yet ascended to My Father." I was just wondering what, exactly, did He mean by that?

PASTOR DOUG: Well if you look in other translations; for instance, I've got John 20:17 open here in the New King James Version, and I think it's a little more accurate. He said, "Do not cling to Me." That word "touch" can also be translated "hold", or like, "hang on to."

See what happened is, when she realized it was Jesus, she said, "Rabboni" and she threw herself at His feet and grabbed Him by the ankles, which was very common as a sign of worship. And He's saying, "Look, don't hang on to Me." He wasn't saying, "Woman, don't touch Me because you're unclean," or something like that uh, "I'm holy and you're not."

He was saying, "Don't cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father." In other words, I can't stay here and linger. I've got to go and ascend to My Father. And that's actually a better translation, is what you find in the New King James, and I think, probably the NIV, and many other versions clear up that verse in the translation.

MAX: Okay. So um, with that, did He go to heaven many times before the final time that He ascended?

PASTOR DOUG: I believe He did, because He appeared to His disciples over a period of 40 days from the Resurrection, until ten days before Pentecost. It was about ten days before Pentecost that He ascended. So, during that period of 40 days, He repeatedly visited His disciples; I think then He would go back to heaven.

Now keep in mind, Jesus, He doesn't need to, you know, book a trip on Priceline to head to heaven. He can be there at the speed of thought. So it's not a long journey for Him.

MAX: Okay now, I'd like to ask another question just to connect this one. So, let's just assume that He did--I believe He did as well--go many times to heaven before He ascended the last time. Would the gates of heaven have, you know, opened up and received Him in the manner that it did in Bible time?

PASTOR DOUG: I think after He rose from the grave, right after He left Mary, I think He went to heaven and had His sacrifice declared acceptable; and He was praised. That's why when He came back Sunday night, He said, "All hail," and then they grabbed His feet and worshiped him, and He said, "Hey, you know, it's no problem." Is that what you understand Pastor Ross?

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Yeah, I was just going to make mention that in Matthew chapter 28, verse 9, where Jesus appears to the disciples, they fall at His feet and worship Him; and He doesn't say anything. He doesn't say, "Don't do this," "Don't detain," "Don't cling to Me. I haven't yet ascended to My Father." So somewhere between the morning and the evening, Jesus ascended to His Father in heaven.

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, and His trip up in heaven could have taken a lot more time than what it seemed like on earth, because they live in a different dimension of time there. Alright friends, you hear the music. We're just taking a break. We've got some important announcements that Pastor Ross is going to share with you; and also, keep your writing utensil handy.

We'd like to have you jot down, for starters, the new Amazing Facts website. Well, it's the same address, amazingfacts.org, but the website is not the same. We've got a lot more information, a lot more user-friendly, and a lot more you can do with it, to search Bible resources, and prepare you both to live a Christian life and to share the Good News with others. So stay tuned. We're going to be back and take more Bible questions in just a moment.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

PASTOR DOUG: That would be me, and if you have a Bible question, I think we've got, oh it looks like, a line open. Who's going to get it? Pick up your phone now and you can be the one. We'll try to get through all of those who are cued up with their Bible questions. My name is Doug Batchelor.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: My name is Jëan Ross. You know Pastor Doug, just a few weeks and it's halloween; and I'm surprised we haven't gotten a question on that yet. But there are some great resources that Amazing Facts has dealing with the subject of death. It's this time of the year when people want to know what happens when a person dies; can they come back in the form of a ghost.

PASTOR DOUG: That's right. Not only do we have a website called Truth About Death that covers a lot of the misconceptions about death and spiritualism--people are preoccupied with mysticism and Harry Potter and all this stuff--but even if they go to our homepage, they're going to see a little button there on halloween.

There's a good article by Debra Hicks that talks about how can a Christian relate to halloween; I mean, how do we have that balance of taking something that has so many dark trappings, and yet, using it in a way that we can even witness. We can be a witnessing opportunity without us dressing up like the devil.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: You know Pastor Doug, I remember a story of a little Christian family. They decided they didn't want their son out trick or treating. Well, halloween came along and mother caught him dressed up like a ghost heading out toward the front door. And she said, "Can we talk about this?" and the little fellow thought for a minute, and finally came back and said, "Well, I'm going to go as the Holy Ghost."

PASTOR DOUG: (Laughs) Good comeback.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Well there's nothing holy about halloween.

PASTOR DOUG: No.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: And there's some great resources dealing with that. Again, the Truth About Death is a great website--

PASTOR DOUG: Dot com.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: --and then just the Amazing Facts website ought to get us there.

PASTOR DOUG: That's right. They can go to either one.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Our next caller is Joseph and he is listening on WROL from New England. Joseph, the third Joseph this evening, welcome to the program.

JOSEPH: Hi, how are you doing?

PASTOR DOUG: Very good. How can we help you?

JOSEPH: You know Doug, at first I was wondering, before I ask my question, if I could just, very quickly, ask a question that somebody else asked you earlier on Mary. If I could just throw something in there--

PASTOR DOUG: Sure

JOSEPH: --because I was really confused over that. Well first of all, like you said, as a human being Jesus always was God, right? The Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, correct, right?

PASTOR DOUG: Uh-huh

JOSEPH: Okay, so Jesus somehow becomes fully God and fully man when He walked this earth, is that right?

PASTOR DOUG: That is correct.

JOSEPH: Okay. Now He goes back into heaven, and He's fully God now right?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah, but He still retains some human form.

JOSEPH: How could she possibly, as a human being, be His mother? I don't get that at all. I mean, not now--

PASTOR DOUG: Well that's what confuses people. And I like to be careful, you know. No one is denying that Mary was the mother of Jesus; and she was chosen as the instrument of God to have that incredibly awesome and holy responsibility. But now that He is at the right hand of the Father.

To take this human creation...I mean, Mary is a creation. Jesus is the Creator. You've got to be careful in the wording, that we don't make it sound like Jesus is, in any way, subject to Mary. So, we just were trying to be careful. It is one of the mysteries.

JOSEPH: Oh no, no. I understand. I just would say 100% that it's impossible that she would be His mother now, you know what I mean?

PASTOR DOUG: Right.

JOSEPH: I mean, it wouldn't make any sense, you know? I mean, from what I understand from the Scripture anyway, you know?

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah. Well what was your original question?

JOSEPH: My original question was that I was wondering on, like restoration, like Job says; and rest, like, I guess, like (unintelligible). I'm confused on this because I've really, kind of like, have a really hard, hard time with God. And I just, uh, uh, I have not had a--I guess a lot of friends I had died and they've moved on and um, whatever. They got married. I never really (unintelligible). I'm trying to get into a rehabilitation program. But the thing is, is that I just can't seem to really grow--and I won't mention the man's name, but you'd know him; but he's very, very popular. He's very well liked and he's very Biblical. And he had an article on uh, which was very encouraging, on God restoring the years of the cankerworm (unintelligible) when people. And that He is a liked father, but I mean, like, I'm in my 60's; I mean, you know, what is...what's He going to do? I mean, it's not that God can't do anything, but, I mean, He has an order that He works in, you know what I mean?

PASTOR DOUG: Well keep in mind, it is true, statistically, it's easier for the Lord to mold hearts when they're young, before the concrete sets. But God is also in the business of giving people dramatic conversions. You look at the Apostle Paul; and the Lord turned him around 180 degrees. And Paul wasn't even looking for it; and God just intervened and changed his life.

Even after you feel like the concrete set in the tree...you know, when they're young, you can bend them. The tree gets a little bigger, it's hard to bend. God can still graft in something new. What I would ask, Joseph, is, if you can do something--and you may already be doing these things--but if you do something that represents a change in your intake, it can make a change in the output.

If you have a revival in your personal devotions, in other words, go on a fast and stop watching any kind of secular television, or movies, or reading material, spend some time in the Word--even though you may not feel like it--do it anyway.

JOSEPH: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: Pray, and get on your knees; and if you don't know what to say, say, "Lord, I'm not sure what to say." And stay on your knees and keep praying. Talk to the Lord. Say, "I want to know you better. I want a genuine conversion." And then try to share something about God with somebody during the day, even if it's just a word of encouragement.

If you practice those three things: spend some time reading the Word; more time in prayer; and try to share your faith, those three things are usually the foundation for a revival.

JOSEPH: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: And it doesn't matter how long you've lived. I mean, Moses, God took a hold of him when he was 80 and he thought that his life--he had his retirement all planned.

JOSEPH: But today for some reason, I mean, uh Doug, I mean, that God doesn't give the years that He did back then, right?

PASTOR DOUG: Oh no; He can still restore. He can restore your joy. Now, it is possible for a person to get to the place where they commit the unpardonable sin, but I don't think--

JOSEPH: What is that?

[Cross talk]

PASTOR DOUG: --or you wouldn't be asking this question. Well you know what? I'll tell you what, I'd like to send you a free book that talks about that. Would you like that Joseph? It's a little book--

JOSEPH: Yes

PASTOR DOUG: --but it has a bunch of Scriptures in it. If you'll just call the number and tell them you're listening to Amazing Facts, and that you'd like our booklet on the unpardonable sin.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: The number to call, Joseph, is 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the little booklet on the unpardonable sin.

PASTOR DOUG: And I should mention, I'm not sharing that with Joseph because I want to discourage him from his question. That book actually has some encouragement in it; how to avoid committing that and have a revival.

[Cross talk]

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Okay, absolutely. Our next caller is Clark, and he's listening on the Internet from Atlanta, Georgia. Clark, welcome to the program.

CLARK: Hey, good evening Pastors.

PASTOR DOUG: Good evening

CLARK: My question is, prophecy on Daniel chapter 9, verse 25--

PASTOR DOUG: Okay

CLARK: --talking about the 70 weeks predicting the coming of the Christ and the time line of that. The second half of 25 has always confused me. It talks about 69 weeks, but it splits them up. It says, "There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks." Then in verse 26 it says, "And after the sixty-two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off." I don't know if there's an answer for this, but I could never determine why it took the seven weeks first, and then the sixty-two weeks, instead of just saying there shall be sixty-nine weeks?

PASTOR DOUG: Okay. Good question. The starting point for the 490-year prophecy, or the 70-week prophecy, is the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem.

CLARK: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: That command was given in 457 B.C. by King Artaxerxes. It's actually in Ezra chapter 7, you can find the command there. From the time that command was given, the Jewish people had 49 years of troublous times rebuilding the wall and the streets in the city. That's why it says in the same prophecy, "The street and the wall will be rebuilt in troublous times."

At the end of that 49-year period, they then entered the 62-week period, which is 483 years total; and that adds up to the 69 weeks, is 483 years. So--

CLARK: Is there...oh I'm sorry. Is there any, what part of the Bible does it talk about that troublous times, that 49--

PASTOR DOUG: The street and the wall all will be built again...let me see here--

CLARK: That's what that lesson is saying, the second part, the last part of 25.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Right. We have the record in Ezra.

PASTOR DOUG: It's in verse 25. "The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: So that's the first seven years. And the record is in Ezra and Nehemiah, all the trouble they had with their neighbors trying to rebuild the city. And that was the 49-year period.

CLARK: Very good. That's what I was looking for.

PASTOR DOUG: Hey, praise the Lord! Another happy customer. You know, we do have some good studies on Daniel chapter 9. Matter of fact, I think that's the one in "God Drew the Plans" where it talks about the 490-year prophecy. "God Drew the Plans." If you ask for that study guide, we'll send it to you.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: We'll be happy to send that out to you. Alright. Actually, there's another one, two on that same subject, Pastor Doug. "Right On Time", I think that also deals with the subject.

[Cross talk]

PASTOR DOUG: Actually, that's the one we want. That's the one we want.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Okay. The resource number again is, 1-800-835-6747. Ask for the study guide, "Right On Time" dealing with the prophecy in Daniel chapter 9. Our next caller is Carol. She's listening on WBCL from Illinois. Welcome to the program, Carol.

CAROL: Thank you very much, and thank you for taking my call.

PASTOR DOUG: Pleasure.

CAROL: Good evening. I was just wondering, I don't like to ask, like, this type of question, but it's something that has been on my mind. Our current thing that we call taking Communion, is one way of saying it, I don't really find any Biblical support for that, except for, you know, like, in 1st Corinthians.

PASTOR DOUG: Well when you...and Carol, if I understand correctly, we're talking about what you mean by that is the Lord's Supper. When we have...in other words, say we celebrate the Lord's Supper, it's called Communion. And, you're saying you don't find Biblical support for that?

CAROL: Not the way we do it. To me, it was done at Passover, and I just wonder if that gives support that we're still suppose to celebrate that; and that's when we do it.

PASTOR DOUG: Well there's certainly nothing wrong with doing it during the Passover week. Jesus does say, "As oft as you do it, do it in remembrance of Me."

CAROL: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: Now, when you read in John chapter 13, Jesus said, "I've done these things to you and I've given you an example, that you should do as I have done." So not just the Communion service, but He even washed the disciples' feet. Now some churches do it weekly. I think that's too frequently.

Other churches do it annually; and most of the Bible feasts were annual. The problem with that is if a person, for whatever reason, misses that event once a year when their church might be celebrating Communion, they have to wait a whole year.

CAROL: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: And it seems like that the emphasis is not the date anymore, as much as the event in the Bible.

CAROL: Umm, okay.

PASTOR DOUG: There's nothing from the time in the New Testament where they ever emphasized that the Lord's Supper should be celebrated; and everything Paul said about it and the others, they never emphasized that it should be done at a certain time of year. But there's certainly nothing wrong, I think, as long as you do it at least once a year.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: If you just do it at Passover, then that's fine.

CAROL: I don't know. There's just, you know, it's says like, whatever. Yeah. Okay. Well I was wondering then here in 1st Corinthians 11 towards the end, it says that if you don't, um, examine your conscience--and I suppose that means not having any grudges against people, and not holding, you know, and forgiving--

PASTOR DOUG: Right.

CAROL: --and things before, it's, kind of like, the sacrifice of the Old Testament; you know, you must be pure before doing that. So to me, it's taken too lightly today. I mean--

PASTOR DOUG: Oh I agree. I think that it should be very solemn.

CAROL: I think that ought to be...yeah, yup.

PASTOR DOUG: And yeah, absolutely. I believe that the Communion service is a very sacred event; and that people, as they enter into it, should be serious about receiving the cleansing, and the sacrifice, and a renewal of the commitment.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Absolutely.

PASTOR DOUG: And if they have animosity and unforgiveness in their heart towards others, they should not participate. Alright. Well, thank you for your question Carol. Hope that helps.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: We're going to go to the next caller. Jamica is listening on the Internet from Chicago, Illinois. Jamica, welcome to the program.

JAMICA: Hi Pastors

PASTOR DOUG: Good evening

JAMICA: I used to go to a Sunday church and I just learned about the Sabbath truth through Amazing Facts; so I thank you very much for all of your work with that.

PASTOR DOUG: Praise the Lord!

JAMICA: And my question is concerning Jeremiah 10, the second verse to the fourth verse.

PASTOR DOUG: Uh-huh

JAMICA: And the reason why, I guess, is because with the holiday season fast approaching, I just found out some things that, kind of, made me upset that December 25th is not Jesus' actual birthday.

PASTOR DOUG: Correct

JAMICA: At first, I guess that was okay. I just figured, "Well as long as we celebrate that He was born, that it doesn't really matter if it is the exact date." But then what kind of gave me pause was that I found out that pagans used to worship...well, like, do something for, like, winter solstice--

PASTOR DOUG: Right

JAMICA: --and things like that. And in this verse that I was reading this Sabbath, kind of stood out in my mind. Does it refer at all to Christians?

PASTOR DOUG: Well let me read some of this for our friends who are listening. Jeremiah 10, and you can start with verse 3. "For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth the tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and hammers, that it moves not. They are upright as the palm tree, but they speak not; they must needs be borne, because they cannot go." And then he says, "Be not afraid of them; they cannot do evil, neither can they do good."

Some have said, "Well, see? There you've got it, a Christmas tree. They cut it and they decorate it." This is not really talking about Christmas trees. This was idolatry. They would cut a tree; they would shape it into their god; they'd plate it with gold; and they carried them about and people worshiped them.

JAMICA: Oh

PASTOR DOUG: And so Jeremiah is really talking about the customs of the people to make idols out of wood, and then say, "You're our god." I think that's a little different than the Christmas tree. But to be honest with you, the Christmas tree does come from a non-Christian culture.

During the winter solstice, the evergreens did not loose their leaves. And so a number of the cultures up North, they would cut down a tree and they'd decorate it with candles. They would put gifts under it and; you know, gradually, Christmas is the result of some Christian and several pagan holidays that just all, kind of, melted together.

Part of the reason for that, Jamica, is because all over the world, everyone noticed in the Northern Hemisphere, the days got shorter; and they stayed about the same from the 21st to the 24th of December. The 25th of December was the first time they noticed the days getting longer; and so it was a big celebration in all these cultures.

So Christmas has, sort of, become the coalescing of many cultural traditions. Some do have pagan trappings. The Christians said, "Look, if we're going to try and reach the pagans, let's take their holiday and we'll say that's the birthday of Jesus." No one knows exactly what the birthday of Jesus is, but it was probably in September, October. If you want, I'll tell you how I know that.

JAMICA: (Laughs) Is it about the sheep being out or something?

PASTOR DOUG: Well, that's one reason. The shepherds were in their fields, which, you know, it's like Northern California here. They don't go out in the fields that time of year. Secondly, it tells us that Caesar Augustus issued a census. The Caesars never had a census in the middle of winter when people had to travel. That would have been just cruel. They always did it usually in the fall when there's a lot of harvesting and they could travel.

Thirdly, it tells us that Jesus was baptized right around...well He ministered three and a half years after His baptism. He was baptized around His 30th birthday. So if you count back three and a half years from the Passover, we know when He died; and His birthday was at His baptism. He probably was born in the fall.

JAMICA: Oh

PASTOR DOUG: So yeah, we're almost certain that He wasn't born the 25th of December. But we could just decide in our own mind; it's like Romans 14, if one man regards the day, regard it to the Lord. If you're not going to regard it to the Lord, then to the Lord you don't regard it. I mean, there's no commandment for us to celebrate Christmas.

JAMICA: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: Okay?

JAMICA: Thank you so much. That makes me feel better.

PASTOR DOUG: Hey you know, we do have a book you'd enjoy. It's called, Baptized Paganism. It gives you some of the background for these things.

JAMICA: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: Thank you Jamica.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: To get that book, Jamica, all you'll need to do is call the resource number, 1-800-835-6747. Ask for the book, Baptized Paganism. We'll be happy to send that out to you. Shabenika is calling from California. Welcome to the program. Shabenika, you there?

SHADENIKA: Oh, Shadenika, hi.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Shadenika, sorry.

SHADENIKA: (Laughs) Okay. Yes, I had a question because, I was listening to a sermon and the minister mentioned something about the second level of heaven. And I was wondering if there's a Biblical reference for that; and if so, what is it, and where can I find more information about that?

PASTOR DOUG: Good. I don't think there's any second heaven mentioned in the Bible. I know my Bible pretty well--

SHADENIKA: The second level.

PASTOR DOUG: There is a third heaven mentioned. And so what happens is, some preachers assume, "Well if there's a third heaven, there must be a first and a second heaven."

SHADENIKA: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: Let me tell you how the Jews understood the word "heaven"; and what I'm telling you now is not my denomination's teaching. This is pretty good fact.

SHADENIKA: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: There are three heavens in the Bible. The first heaven was the atmosphere around the planet where the birds fly; it's what we breathe; it's where the clouds float. When the Bible talks about the birds in heaven, it means the atmosphere.

SHADENIKA: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: When it says, for instance, in 2nd Peter chapter 3, "The heavens will dissolve with fervent heat," it's not talking about the stars where God lives. It's talking about the atmosphere around our planet. That's the first heaven.

SHADENIKA: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: The second heaven was the starry heavens where the moon, and the sun, and the stars are, the solar system, that was called the starry heavens. The third heaven is referred to as the dwelling place of God, the seat of God's government. So when Paul says he was caught up to the third heaven--I forget, is that in 1st Corinthians or 2nd Corinthians?

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: 2nd Corinthians 12, verse 2.

PASTOR DOUG: Second Corinthians 12:2. He's speaking about going into the presence of God in vision. It had nothing to do with...he didn't take a trip through the stars. Some churches, just through sheer ignorance, dear, well-meaning pastors say, "Oh, there are seven heavens." I heard the expression, "I was in seventh heaven." The Bible never mentions seven heavens.

It's just the three heavens in the Bible, the atmosphere; the solar systems, the astronomy; and then the third heaven is the dwelling place of God. We are not going to be segregated in different heavens.

SHADENIKA: Um-hmm

PASTOR DOUG: Someone says, "Well I'm up in the first heaven. I'm in the first class. You're down in the third, business-class heaven, or whatever it is." I've actually heard preachers talk about it that way, and they're uninformed.

SHADENIKA: Yeah, because the way it was mentioned, it was, like the angels and the demons were fighting, I guess on, you know, at that level that the angels to try to bring down blessings that we had prayed for. But I had never seen anything about it, so I was like--

PASTOR DOUG: No. Sounds like someone was getting creative. I've got a computer Bible program here and I just searched the entire Bible; the phrase "second heaven" appears no where in Scripture.

SHADENIKA: Okay

PASTOR DOUG: Alright?

SHADENIKA: Alright. Thank you.

PASTOR DOUG: Hey thank you, good question; but we will send you a free lesson if you'd like. We can tell you about the real heaven. And we've got a study guide talking about the City of God we'll send you.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: That's right. All you'll need to do is call that resource number, 1-800-835-6747.

PASTOR DOUG: It's a heavenly space City.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Is that the new name, or the old name?

PASTOR DOUG and PASTOR JËAN ROSS: (Laughs)

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Let me see if I can look it up here.

PASTOR DOUG: Well if we don't know, who does? We're suppose to know these things.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Something on the heavenly City. I know it's out there. Wait, here it is, Colossal City in Space. There it is.

PASTOR DOUG: Yup. I got some help from our producers.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Okay, great. Our next caller is Michael listening on WMCA from New York. Michael, welcome to the program.

MICHAEL: Good evening Pastors.

PASTOR DOUG: Hi, how can we help you Michael?

MICHAEL: Okay, my question is pertaining to the book of Revelation, it's the 9th chapter, and well, specifically, would be the 5th verse. But my understanding of it it's kind of, like, a hard language to understand. It's kind of metaphorical, but it speaks of the fifth angel sounding--

PASTOR DOUG: Right

MICHAEL: --star falls unto the earth; the bottomless pit is opened. Well actually, I'm sorry, the star that falls to the earth is given the key to the bottomless pit. It's opened, and out arises a great smoke. I'm just kind of paraphrasing; and then comes forth, of course, locusts and scorpions.

PASTOR DOUG: Right

MICHAEL: And then it goes down to the fifth verse where it speaks about, "It was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

PASTOR DOUG: Yes.

MICHAEL: Now--

PASTOR DOUG: Do you want me to explain all that? (Laughs)

MICHAEL: No, not all of it, but--

PASTOR DOUG: I mean, I can take a crack at it, but it's a big answer.

MICHAEL: Right. Well, let me just take a second here and focus on the fourth verse. Correct me if I'm wrong...well no, let me just ask you directly then, what does the grass and any green thing, and the tree represent, that it's commanded not to hurt?

PASTOR DOUG: Alright. You'll often find things divided in thirds here in Revelation. And the grass, and the earth, and any green thing; for one thing, these are things that were made on the third day of creation. And there are three things mentioned there, the vegetation, that everything else was nourished by.

This is describing, of course, it's ultimately Satan who comes out of the bottomless pit. But the devil used a power in the dark ages of Islam to punish the Christian church, because they did not have the law of God in their hearts, the seal of God in their foreheads.

For instance, Moses said, "These words," and this is Deuteronomy chapter 6. "These words I command you this day shall be in your heart. You shall write them as frontlets between your eyes and they shall be on the palms of your hands." And so we need to have the law of God in our thoughts, in our hands, in our hearts.

Christianity became, kind of, a government institution during the dark ages. And when this seal is open, it's talking about a great plague of persecution that the Lord allowed to come on the Christian church. It was the Ottoman empire and all of its scourge.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: You know Pastor Doug, I have the commentary open on this particular verse; and it's interesting to note that Martin Luther, as well as the Swiss reformer, Bullinger, all identified this plague as referring to the Muslims--

PASTOR DOUG: Yeah

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: --coming in the Ottoman empire and the Turks.

PASTOR DOUG: They were a scourge that God sent to punish Christianity for its hypocrisy during that time.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Um-hmm

MICHAEL: That's interesting. Another quick question, well it's still related. The fifth verse speaks about a five-month period of torment. Is that a literal five-month period?

PASTOR DOUG: No. You'll find in Biblical prophecy, a day generally represents a year. Michael is asking some big questions here on prophecy. We have a study guide that talks about America in prophecy; and that will help you understand some of the prophetic interpretations, that are used--the principles--to understand these prophecies.

It's a deep study. I could take a whole hour and talk about the fifth seal, Michael. So I hope you'll forgive me. We're trying to get a couple more calls in before we're out of time.

PASTOR JËAN ROSS: Michael, real quick, that number is 1-800-835-6747. You can ask for the study guide dealing with the United States in Bible prophecy. Our next caller is Betty, listening on WMDA from Long Island, New York. Betty, welcome to the program.

BETTY: Hi, good evening Pastor Doug and Pastor Ross.

PASTOR DOUG: Good evening

BETTY: I would like for you to, very quickly, look at Mark 9, verses 44, 46, 48; and in my Bible it's in red, so I know that this is Christ speaking. Something is said three times; and when I read the Bible, I cannot understand what it's referring to.

PASTOR DOUG: Okay, alright. Let me read this real quick, and I'm starting with Mark 9:44. And Jesus said, "Their worm dieth not, and their fire is not quenched." And He's talking about if your hand, or your eye, or your foot offends you, better to cut them off. The word that Jesus uses here is the word, "Gehenna".

There was a valley outside Jerusalem that was the city dump. I see I'm running out of time. And that's where it was full of worms, and it was smoldering. And Christ is saying you're better off doing God's will and going to heaven maimed; in other words, making some sacrifice to be saved, rather than going to the dump of Gehenna, full of worms and smoldering ruin and filth. And so, what profit would it be to have a whole body and be lost.

Oh, we hate to cut you off. Hey, you know Betty, we have a website. If you can go to the website, helltruth.com, we've got a whole study on these verses right there. Listening friends, please keep us in your prayers. Will you do that? And we'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to make a donation to help us keep doing what we're doing, go to amazingfacts.org. God bless until next week.

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