Pastor Doug Batchelor: Hanging from a single electric wire in an old Livermore, California firehouse there is a light bulb. Not so amazing, you think, but there's more. The bulb is supplied by a 120 volts and puts out a meager 4 watts of amber light. You're probably still not very impressed. Until you consider, this same humble light bulb was already burning when the Wright brothers made their historic flight in 1903.
Then this light bulb continued to persistently glow through World War I, the crash of the stock market in 1929 and on through World War II. At present, this incredible light bulb has been burning for over a 108 years. The enduring bulb was originally made by Shelby Electric Company in Ohio. The company had a legendary reputation for quality till it was bought by the General Electric company in 1914.
This particular bulb was one of the early hand blown models with a heavy carbon filament. Over the years, there have been brief interruptions as the firehouse has been renovated and even relocated from its first street location to its present site on 4450 East Avenue but the same bulb went with them. With these minor exceptions it's been burning continuously as a night light over the fire trucks in the Livermore firehouse since 1901.
This unique bulb has been declared by the Guinness Book of World Records to be the oldest known working light bulb in the world. Did you know the Bible speaks of a sacred light that burned for over 300 years? Stay with us, friends, we're going to learn more as Amazing Facts brings you this edition of Bible Answers Live.
[PROGRAM INTRODUCTION]
Pastor Doug: Hello, friends, welcome once again to Bible Answers Live. If you just happen to be wondering past this frequency, you found your way to a live, international, interactive Bible study. You are invited to join us as we explore the word of God together. If you have a Bible question, you can call the toll free number and we'll do our best to get to it in our time. We still have a couple of lines open. My name is Doug Batchelor.
Pastor Jean Ross: My name is Jean Ross. Good evening, listening friends and pastor Doug. Before we go to the phone lines and open up the word let's have a word of prayer. Dear Father, we thank you again that we're able to be here and we ask your blessing upon this program this evening. We ask the truth of your word, which shine through to us. That we might understand your will and purpose for our lives. Be with us this evening in Jesus' name. Amen.
Pastor Doug: Amen.
Pastor Ross: Pastor Doug that was a very interesting fact that opened the program. A light bulb that has been burning for over 100 years. That's an historic feat. Of course, those who manufactured the light bulb in the beginning, 100 years ago or more, they weren't planning on having this light bulb burn for that long. They just did a excellent job in making this bulb.
Pastor Doug: They had a perfect combination of the glass that was blown and the carbon, and the vacuum. Of course, it's not a very bright bulb. I'm sure that's prolonged it's life. Still, nonetheless it's incredible, 108 years now. I checked the website just today, it's still going. People can make appointments and go by the Livermore firehouse and see that light bulb still glowing after all these years.
That made me think of this story in the Bible. That when the temple was built, God had instructed that they were to keep the fire going on the altar. There's a special reason for that. When the first temple was built in the wilderness, God brought fire down from heaven and ignited the first sacrifice, himself. Then they said, "That fire is sacred fire because God kindled it." They never let that fire go out.
As a matter of fact, they used to light the lamps and the incense in the temple all came from what they called sacred fire. You can read about this in Leviticus 6:12-13, "And the fire on the altar shall be kept burning on it. It shall not be put out, and the priest shall burn wood on it every morning. And laid the burnt offering on it in order. And he's to burn the fat and the peace offerings. If fire shall always be burning on the altar, it shall never go out."
Now, that sacred fire, it came down when Moses built his tabernacle in the wilderness. Then when Solomon built the next one, the son of David, fire came down form heaven and it ignited-- Basically God inaugurated that temple with holy fire and they were only supposed to use that fire, but two sons of Aaron, these would be Moses nephews, they were drinking one day and they were serving this priest, and they became a little careless. Instead of using the sacred fire from the altar to bring in before the Lord for the incense, they just took some common fire from the campground.
The Bible tells us in the book of Leviticus 10:1, that fire came from God out of heaven and devoured them. They died before the Lord. It makes it sound like they were struck with lightning. You heard that expression before. I think this is one of the only times in the Bible where it actually talks about someone being struck by lightning from the Lord. It's because they were using this counterfeit fire. That fire is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. When Pentecost, God brought tongues of fire down on the apostles but for every truth of God the devil has a counterfeit fire. God wants his fire, his light to be burning in the world.
Christ led, "Let your light so shine." He wants it to continue, but the Devil's got a counterfeit kind of light. How do you know the difference between the Holy Spirit and a counterfeit? In our world today people talk about love, but Hollywood often confuses real Christian agape love for a more central lust. The devil has a counterfeit love. In the same way, he's got a counterfeit spirit.
There's people going around claiming to be faith healers and they put on quite a show. Sometimes I question whether it's really the Holy Spirit that is operating in all those examples. We have a special book that I don't believed we've offered very often, that answers this question. How you can discern Biblically between the genuine and the counterfeit light of God, spirit of God.
Pastor Ross: This is a classic book dealing with the subject of the Holy Spirit. It's entitled Man's Flicker or God's Flame. To receive this free book, call our resource line 1-800-835-6747. That's 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the book on the Holy Spirit called Man's Flicker or God's Flame. This is such an important subject Pastor Doug. We know that according to the Book of Revelation prior to the coming of Jesus, the devil is going to perform signs and wonders. He's going to try and deceive if possible even the very elect.
Pastor Doug: Absolutely.
Pastor Ross: So, being able to discern between the Holy Spirit and the counterfeit spirit is really important in this time.
Pastor Doug: It's crucial. Yes. Otherwise people can be deceived. Obviously if there's going to be false Christ and false prophets, there's going to be counterfeit Holy Spirit too.
Pastor Ross: Absolutely. Well, let's go to the phone lines. Our first caller this evening is Joel, calling from San Antonio, Texas. Joel, welcome to the program.
Joel: [inaudible 00:08:35] pastors.
Pastor Doug: Hi, Joel. Welcome. Your question tonight?
Joel: Yes. My question is-- Let me see, John 8:56, I believe. I may have gotten that mixed up, but it says something about- Jesus is talking and he says, "Abraham, rejoiced to see my day." I've came to some Bible truths about the status of the dead if they're dead. How would I explain that to people who question that? You can almost confirm from that that Abraham is alive and breathing, and seeing us from heaven.
Pastor Doug: Well, I would never see this verse as very strong ammunition that Abraham's up there looking down right now. Some people might go to the rich man and Lazarus where it talks about going to Abraham's bosom. In this verse, Jesus actually uses the past tense, it says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it." Rejoiced is past tense.
Now, the time when Abraham rejoiced to see his day is when Abraham went up the mountain with his son as a sacrifice and he was willing to offer his son.
God revealed to him through that whole experience that he would provide himself a sacrifice. Matter of fact, Abraham spoke those words, "God will provide himself a sacrifice." He saw that in God's test of his loyalty. God was demonstrating that I soul of the world. I am going to give my son. "Abraham, I tested you and I stopped you before you did it but I will not stop when they go to execute my son." The father allowed that and Abraham look forward to and rejoiced to see the day of the Messiah coming.
Pastor Ross: Also we find God speaking to Abraham and giving him that wonderful promise that, "In his seed all nations shall be blessed." Of course, that's a reference to the Messiah and the coming of Jesus. God revealed to Abraham this wonderful gift that was going to be given to mankind, the gift of Christ, the gift of the Messiah and Abraham rejoiced to know that that was coming.
Joel: Amen. Really quick, I don't know if I can squeeze in. In Revelation 11, I came to also the truth that you guys speak about. The two witnesses being in the Old and New Testament and I firmly understand that but there's one Scripture that always gets me kind of caught up where it says, "They will call fire from heaven." How would that apply to me and you as Christians or as the word of God or maybe in the historical sense when it came to pass?
Pastor Doug: Now, the word of the two witnesses in Revelation, sometimes they're metaphors of Moses and Elijah. Moses and Elijah appeared on the mountain to Jesus. One represents the law, the other represents the prophets. When Christ lived, of course, there was no New Testament yet. That was written later. When we say the two witnesses are the Old and New Testament. The old and the new covenant, the law and the prophets, it's really the word of God. The word of God is a two- it's a dual nature. It's referred to as a sword with two edges. A double-edged sword.
Both Moses and Elijah, in their experience, fire came down from God. Elijah prayed and fire came down. Then you get to Revelation and it even says that the counterfeit is going to go so far as bringing fire down from God out of heaven. In the new, in the Old Testament, you see examples of fire coming down. In the experience of Moses and Elijah, you see all the things that are represented as the power of the word. When it says that they strike the earth with plagues.
Well, you can see the plagues that fell on the Egyptians in the 10 plagues of Egypt, Moses, and you can go to the New Testament see the seven last plagues that fall on those who receive the mark of the beast. New and old testament you see plagues. All the characteristics of the word of God are seen in these two witnesses. Now, I've got a free book that we'll be happy to send you, Joel. It's called The Two Witnesses and if you like a copy, just call the toll free number, we'll send you one, okay.
Joel: Thank you.
Pastor Ross: The number again is 1-800 835-6747. You can ask for the book on The Two Witnesses dealing with the Holy Spirit and also the word of God here in Revelation Chapter 11. Our next caller is Weston and he's listening on the Internet from Wisconsin. Weston, welcome to the program.
Weston: Hi, how you guys doing?
Pastor Doug: Real Well. How can we help you tonight, Weston?
Weston: All right. Me and my cousin had a discussion the other day and I studied what you talked about for hell but we had a controversy about whether or not demons and Satan burn out or do they burn forever?
Pastor Doug: All right, well, there's a verse in Revelation 20 that many people point to and I don't know if you've got your Bibles handy there.
Weston: Yes.
Pastor Doug: Here it talks about the devil is cast into this lake of fire, he's tormented day and night forever and, of course, it says the devil and his angels are cast into this lake of fire. The question is when God says in Revelation 21, "And there is no more pain in the new Earth. Is there still pain? When God says in Revelation, "I make all things new." If there's still a torture chamber that God's got somewhere, where the devil and his angels and even the lost are going to be writhing and shrieking for billions in zillions of years.
I don't know if you ever burnt yourself or put your hand on a hot stove for a fraction of a second. It's almost inconceivable to imagine that for an hour and yet to imagine that God would do that to his rebellious wayward creatures through eternity. One of the- [crosstalk]
Weston: That's what I thought.
Pastor Doug: -one of the big problems comes in with understanding the words when they go from Greek to English.
Weston: Yes, they have a problem with that because I told them that you translated often.
Pastor Doug: Yes, and the words EON is used.
Weston: That's what I tried to tell them exactly. Is that eon-- [crosstalk]
Pastor Doug: Eon is an unspecified period of time. We even say that today, I haven't seen him in eons. Well, how long is that? Well, it means a long time but anybody in the lake of fire and there is a place called Hell Fire and the wicked are burned, but can you imagine burning in a day?
Weston: Yes and I showed him the verse where it says forever and ever. I said if forever meant eternity. Why would it have to say it twice?
Pastor Doug: Right.
Pastor Ross: There's a couple verses also that talk about this fire that destroys the wicked and it gives them clean impression that this fire will eventually go out. For example, Isaiah Chapter 47:14, says, "Behold they shall be stubble speaking of the wicked. The fire shall burn them. They shall be devoured- it shall devour them," and then it will say that they will not be a cold to warm at nor fire to sit before. This fire eventually goes out.
Malachi Chapter 4:1, says, "In the day that karma shall burn as an oven, it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Satan being the root of evil, the branch being his angels or those who have bought into his lies.The Bible speaks about the complete and utter destruction of Satan, his angels and eventually, the fire goes out.
Pastor Doug: Yes, Jesus said that "Fear not him who can destroy the body but it can't hurt the soul rather fear him who will destroy soul and body in hell." In the verse in Malachi, Pastor Ross was just quoting. If you read on a little further it says, "You'll go forth and tread on the wicked for their ashes under the soles of your feet." Then there's this probably hundreds of verses that talk about the wicked will perish. There's two two choices that everybody has, everlasting life, the penalty for sin is death. That's the penalty for Lucifer. That's the penalty for those that follow him. There is punishment and then they are burnt up. They're destroyed.
The other point is, if everybody burns forever, everybody gets the same reward but obviously the duration or intensity must be different. Because Jesus said, "He who didn't do his masses will and he didn't know he's beaten with few stripes. He that did know is beaten with many stripes." There's varying degrees of reward. Now, we have a study guide. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's dealing with this subject and it's called Is Satan In Charge of Hell? No, is that what it's called?
Pastor Ross: Is the Devil In Charge of Hell?
Pastor Doug: Is the Devil In Charge of Hell? I knew that was getting closer and we'll send you a free copy of that Weston, just call the number.
Pastor Ross: The number is 1-800-835-67t47. You can ask for the study guide, Is the Devil In Charge of Hell. We also have a website that Amazing Facts has put together dedicated to the subject of hell, explaining what the Bible teaches about it, called helltruth.com.
Pastor Doug: That's perfect, go to helltruth.com. At that website, you'll also see a book you can read it for free. It's called Hell Fire, A Twisted Truth Untangled and the modern-- many modern Christians sort of believe a composite of what the Bible teaches about Hell and Greek mythology Pluto and Hades and it's interesting how they got it all mixed up. I hope that helps a little Weston and we'll send those things to you for free and anyone listening, go to helltruth.com. You'll find lots of scripture there on this subject.
Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Tony and he's calling from Ohio listening on WTLG. Tony, welcome to the program.
Pastor Doug: Tony, you there? Hi, you're on the air, Tony.
Tony: Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me?
Pastor Doug: I hear you loud and clear now.
Tony: All right, how you doing, Pastor Doug?
Pastor Doug: Doing well, praise the Lord.
Tony: All right, praise the Lord. I have a question, about jewelry in the church. I'm kind of mixed and then no was in Bible but some teach that jewelry is forbidden because it's contrary to God. But, okay, really between the wedding ring but it's okay to wear a watch because a watch has its purpose but I mean sometimes in the Bible you see like in Genesis when a man gave Rebecca a jewelry and everything and nothing wrong was said about it and God sometimes described heaven as the bride, adorned with jewelry. I mean what's your take on it?
Pastor Doug: All right, well, I appreciate that. Let me give you just of a few scriptures dealing with the subject. First of all, for anyone listening, let me make it very clear, that I and Pastor Ross, both believe there's going to be a whole lot of people in heaven that wore jewelry. There's a principle of the foundation of this. Many conservative Christians see in the scriptures and I'm one of those, that the pattern for Christian dress is one of simplicity. For instance, when the children of Israel made a golden calf they made it out of the jewelry that they had taken from the Egyptians and then when God was getting ready to judge them, he said, "Break off your ornaments so that I can know what I should do with it.' Is that Exodus 35, I think.
When Jacob was preparing to go meet with the Lord, and this is in Genesis, Jacob said to his family, "They broke off their jewelry, they buried it and then they went to meet with the Lord." It seems like whenever they were living surrounded with a pagan culture they began to adopt the customs of the pagans and they started poking holes in their nose, and their ears and hanging ornaments off their body. God kept saying, "Look, you're my people your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, there should be a simplicity about your attire." He kept saying, "Take that stuff off." You see this in the Bible.
Now, it’s one thing if a bride dresses up for the wedding, God sometimes points to that just as an example of what the custom was of the day but it doesn't mean he ever endorsed the flamboyance and the hanging of all these minerals on our bodies. Then of course Peter says, "Who's adorning? Speaking of women, let it not be the outward adorning, the wearing of gold." Paul says, "That the godly woman should not adorn themselves with golden pearls and costly array."
I've just given you a smattering of scriptures but if you want, Tony, there's a whole book that I'll send you a free copy and it's all the scriptures on the subject and it's Jewelry, How Much is Too Much. Today, they’ve got some stores you can go online it'll say Christian jewelry and I always thought that was a little bit of an oxymoron. Pastor Ross, do you want to add something?
Pastor Ross: Yes, just that one concept where the church is likened into the bride of Christ and it talks about her being adorned, a bride adorned for a husband. Revelation 19:8, tells us what that adorning is. It says to her that's the bride of Christ was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen clean and white for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. When it talks about her being adorned for the husband, it's talking about this white linen representing righteousness, holy character.
Pastor Doug: Even in Revelation 12, it has a little more adornment, it's sun, moon and stars, it's light, she's adorned with light. Whereas the woman in Revelation 17, who is not-- she's the antithesis of the bride of Christ she's adorned with lots of gold and pearls and all of the worldly adornments. If a person does a deep study they're going to come away going, "Wow, I didn't realize the Bible had so much to say on that." I hope that helps, Tony, and appreciate your question on that. We'll send you that book, Jewelry, How Much is Too Much or anyone that wants to know just call and ask for it.
Pastor Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747, ask for the book Jewelry, How Much is Too Much. Our next caller is calling from Guam. Camille, Camellia listening on Joy 92. Camellia, are you there?
Pastor Doug: Camellia, are you there?
Camille: Hello.
Pastor Doug: Hi. Welcome you're on the air with Bible Answers Live.
Camille: Hi. Quick question and I think this is coming from Mathew 24. Thank you for taking my call, by the way.
Pastor Doug: Yes, we don't get too many calls from Guam so we always like to put you at the top of the list there.
Camille: Okay, my question is-- We were studying- my husband and I are studying Mathew 24 when Jesus was telling his disciples when his return was coming up. I understand it’s a dual prophecy. I was just wondering when he said that, "When you see the city surrounded by soldiers then you will know that’s it’s time for you to get out." I was wondering, well, what is our sign today for us to "get out of the city, per se," it’s always how would we know?
Pastor Doug: That's a good question. Now, first of all, speaking of the second coming Jesus says in Matthew 24:16, "Let those that be in Judea flee into the mountains." He's talking about when you see the abomination of desolation come. It's worded a little differently when you look in Luke 21:21. Luke says, "That when you see Jerusalem compass with armies know the desolation there of is near let those that be in Judea flee."
The first part of this prophecy, Jesus is speaking to the Jews that were going to be- are the Christians Jews that were going to be in Jerusalem when it was conquered by the Romans. The city was totally desolated and they were given a brief window to escape and head for the hills and they did. In the same way, in the last days, when God's people see that we are being surrounded by laws that are bent on our destruction, we need to get out of the cities. The populated areas where the persecution is going to be extremely intense because Christ said, "You're going to be brought before kings and rulers." Probably it's going to be on TV.
They'll be debates and genuine Bible-believing Christians are going to be a real target of hatred when they see all of the problems in the world. They'll get blamed for everything. It's when they begin to legislate how we're supposed to worship, that's going to be time to head for the hills. As long as we have freedom to preach the gospel and practice our convictions we need to work the cities to reach the lost.
Camille: Okay, I appreciate that.
Pastor Doug: All right. Thank you, Camille. I appreciate your question.
Camille: Thanks.
Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Donna and she's calling from Pleasant Hill, California. Donna, welcome to the program.
Pastor Doug: Hi, Donna. You're on the air, you there?
Donna: Yes, hi.
Pastor Doug: We have a little phone problem tonight but we've got you now. Your question--
Donna: How are you?
Pastor Doug: We’re doing fine.
Donna: I have a question. I have been dating someone for quite a long time and I love him very much but I just want to know is it Biblical to be dating someone that I feel drinks way too much?
Pastor Doug: Well, you're probably asking the wrong person because I think if they drink any alcohol, you're looking at problems. Whatever a person does when you're dating will be multiplied if you're married.
Donna: Oh, God. [laughs]
Pastor Doug: If a boyfriend pushes you around when you're dating, he'll hit you when you're married. I'm just telling you, I'm a pastor. Pastor Ross is a pastor. We do a lot of counseling. People are generally on their best behavior before marriage. If you've got those kind of problems then just wait. Now, I don't know your boyfriend--
Donna: Well, I don’t have those kind of problems. [laughs]
Pastor Doug: I know but he may be a great person but I'm saying if you think he's drinking too much now, you may have a person who's got a real problem with alcoholism. The other principle is I don't think a Bible Christian I'm trusting that you're a believer-
Donna: Yes.
Pastor Doug: -I'm hoping that you want to be dating someone who is an unbeliever?
Donna: Right. No, he believes just probably not to the level I do.
Pastor Doug: Well, yes, if he's drinking, it's one of the most addictive drugs in the country. It's just not a real good witness for Christian, one out of seven people who drinks becomes an alcoholic and that's an always--
Donna: Yes, he's probably is.
Pastor Doug: All right. Well, I tell you, I sure won't-- you might care for him and keep praying but I sure would not link my life with a person who has that pattern now. I know that's heartbreaking but God wants you to link your life with someone where you can be witnesses together. You're not going to help him with his accountability if you support what he's doing by linking your life with him. If I were you, I let him know that, "Hey, this is not going to work out, you got to choose between alcohol and me." The other concern is even if he stops drinking and say, "Well, I’ll stop drinking for a month, let's get married." I'd wait longer than that. I'd want to see a pattern of being free from that.
Now, there's a book I can send you, Donna, that's got-- I wrote it. I used to drink, I know it's a struggle. I praise God I haven't had a drink in 30 years, unless somebody slipped me something I didn’t know about. It's called Alcohol and the Christian. It's got the scriptures on the subject and I'll be glad to send it to you Alcohol and the Christian.
Donna: I would love that.
Pastor Doug: All you got to do is call the toll free number and we will send that book to you. Pastor Ross?
Pastor Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747 and Donna again the book is called the Alcohol and the Christian.
Pastor Doug: Listening friends you can tell we're about to take a break. We have some important announcements for you and also keep in mind that a lot of the resources that we mentioned, you can read many of them for free by going to the Amazing Facts website which is very simply, amazingfacts.com or amazingfacts.org, got a free library there. Stand by we'll be back in a moment.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
Pastor Doug: Hello, listening friends. If you joined us somewhere along the way, this is Bible Answers Live. This is a live international, interactive Bible study and we invite you to call in with your Bible questions. That number once again is 800-GOD-SAYS, 800-463-7297. You're invited to call in your questions. We do still have a couple of lines open. Pastor Ross, before we go to the phones, we mentioned something last week that is very exciting and we trust that some of our people went to check it out.
Amazing Facts has developed a new website specifically dealing with prophecy. We get so many questions about prophecy and there's a lot of misunderstanding. It's a very modern, state of the art website to help you quickly navigate the subjects of prophecy. It's an easy title, it's called Bible Prophecy Truth, bibleprophecytruth.com. We are inviting our Bible Answers Live audience to go to this website. Take a look at that and then tell us what you think.
Let me just read some of the topics that you've got there. It's got a very attractive carousel rotating around a Bible, 666, the anti-Christ, seven last plagues, Armageddon, death, hell, Babylon, seven-year tribulation, new world order, the beast, the millennium, Revelation angels, heaven, just for starters. If you would like to know more about Bible prophecy, we've got a plethora of information on each one of those topics.
Pastor Ross: Pastor Doug, the great thing about this new website is that not only can you read information about Bible prophecy but you can watch videos, you can listen to the radio programs. Even Bible questions related to prophetic subject, it's there. You can just click on it. You can listen, you can watch, you can read everything- [crosstalk]
Pastor Doug: It appeals to everybody. The cerebral ones can read and the auditory ones can listen and the visual ones can watch. By the way, since we announced this last week we've had some suggestions. We've already made upgrades. This is a growing developing beta website but we're giving it out to our Bible Answers Live audience. It's called Bible Prophecy Truth. At the bottom of the website, it'll tell you how to contact the webmaster with your information or suggestions so we'd love to hear from you. Are we ready to go back to the phone?
Pastor Ross: We are and will go to Danielle who is calling from California, North Fork, California. Danielle, welcome to the program.
Pastor Doug: Danielle, are you on the air?
Danielle: Can you hear me?
Pastor Doug: There you go, okay.
Pastor Ross: All right.
Danielle: Okay.
Pastor Doug: And your question?
Danielle: I am wondering what the Bible says about women as elders in the church.
Pastor Doug: Okay. First of all God calls men and women to ministry. Jesus had disciples that were man. He had disciples that were women. The role of pastor and Eeder are just about synonymous in the New Testament. As Paul went from town to town ordaining elders. The elders were pastors or shepherds of the flock. The criteria that God gives for the elders, of course, it always says husband of one wife. It never refers to the elders in the form of- that they should be women.
Now, a woman might be an evangelist, a woman might be a prophetess. A woman can be a Bible instructor but the church is an extension of the family and there is a distinction Biblically in the roles of the husband and the wife. In the same way, the pastors, priests, elders, apostles, they were all men in the Bible. You'll find no Biblical example from cover to cover of God asking a woman to offer sacrifice of an animal.
Hanna offered her son, so to speak, as a living sacrifice. You don't find Jesus calling any women to be apostles and through the New Testament, Paul's instruction also is consistently that it's a patriarchal rule. Yes, men and women are called the ministry. A pastor can invite a woman to speak and teach and preach in his church, when they're doing this with the authority of the leadership there but I can't find any Biblical precedent and in this program we're bound by what the Bible says for women being ordained as pastors or elders. Now, Danielle, you still there?
Danielle: Yes, I'm still here.
Pastor Doug: We've got a book. As a matter of fact, I just wrote a book on this and we'll send you a copy. It's called The Women in Ministry. We get so many questions on this. I thought I should put the scriptures together in a book. It's simple reading and we'll be happy to send you a free copy if you'd like that. Matter of fact, anybody who asks if you'd like that new book on women in ministry, we'll send it to you.
Danielle: Can I add something to that? If you are going to adopt something that is not necessarily Biblical, should you then find a different congregation? Should you stand up against it? Any comments to that?
Pastor Doug: Well, let me tell you what I think. That's a good question. When a person joins a church, most churches have a statement of belief. That statement of belief represents the pillars of their faith. In our church, we've got about a dozen baptismal vows that are sort of the non-negotiable pillars. If somebody is leading a church, where they no longer believe for instance in the Bible being the word of God, the Trinity or some fundamental that is in those statements of belief, that would be cause I think for separation. But as long as they still embrace the pillars you're going to find there's differences or discussion on a lot of interpretations.
Danielle: So not finding another congregation would- [crosstalk]
Pastor Doug: The church may need revival but you're more prone to revive it if you're in it. You know what I'm saying? When it's one of those-- even in our church there might be disagreement about what is the interpretation of the seven trumpets or Ezekiel's vision and you don't split over some things. I do think it's more serious when people say there's no distinction between men and women Biblically because I do find the Bible recognizes a distinction. Not a distinction in value because there is neither male or female when it comes to what our value is for God and in saving us and using us but in the roles of men and women, there is a distinction Biblically.
I think that's important but I wouldn't want that split. What do you think, Pastor Ross?
Pastor Ross: I agree. It is important to follow the Bible and we should seek its counsel and follow that but sometimes some of these things are a little out of our hands. If we are church member things might be done-- [crosstalk]
Pastor Doug: You've got to decide what mountain you want to die on and this may not be the mountain to die on. If you know what I mean.
Danielle: Yes, that was [unintelligible 00:37:51]
Pastor Doug: If you don't have that book, Danielle, we'd invite you to send for it and we'll send you free copy.
Pastor Ross: The number is 1-800-835-6747. Again, the book is entitled Woman in Ministry. Our next caller is Matthew and he's calling from Fort Collins, Colorado. Matthew, welcome to the program.
Matthew: Hello.
Pastor Doug: Yes, Matthew. You're on the air. Matthew?
Matthew: Yes, hello.
Pastor Doug: Hi. Our phones have been sabotaged by gremlins tonight so- I don't know if I can prove that Biblically but something is gone wrong. Anyway, we've got you now.
Matthew: Awesome. I was able to tell a couple of friends about the program.
Pastor Doug: Oh praise the Lord. Your question tonight?
Matthew: Hebrews 4:9.
Pastor Doug: Hebrews 4 9. Okay. I recognize that.
Matthew: The remains, therefore a sabbatismos for the people of God.
Pastor Doug: Yes.
Matthew: I've heard that you used to support the Sabbath, a literal Sabbath. I've heard the same passage used against the Sabbath, just to spiritualize it. What do you guys see in this passage in particular, the word rest is used a few times. What do you think they're referring to?
Pastor Doug: Well, if we're honest, the context of what Paul is talking about here- he's talking about the rest that we find in Jesus. Now, I do believe the word he uses here is sabbatismos which means rest. What he's saying is Peter in Psalms says, "Now, today if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as they did in the wilderness." He's saying,"If the final rest that people were to receive was the one Joshua gave them when they cross in the promised land, then David who lived hundreds of years after Joshua would not have spoken of a future rest that we enter into." Christ said, "Come unto me and I'll give you rest."
Now, every one of the 10 Commandments has a spiritual side and a letter or literal side. The letter of the law says, don't commit adultery. Of course, we should keep the letter but there's a spirit of the law. Don't be looking on the opposite sex and lusting in your heart. The letter of the law said, don't murder. The spirit of the law says, do not be angry with your brother without cause or you're committing murder in your hearts. The letter of the law says, "Remember the Sabbath day." Of course, we should still keep that. The spirit of the law is, "Come unto me and I'll give you rest."
And so in Hebrews 4, he's pointing to the Sabbath rest that we also find in Jesus, but keeping the spirit of the law never negates the letter. Some people say, "Well, you keep the letter but I keep the spirit." They're lying. That's what John says, "If people say, 'I'm spiritual. I keep the spirit of the law but I break the letter,'" that's like a person say, "I keep the spirit of the law about adultery. I don't think about it." It doesn't make any sense when someone says, "I'm spiritual. I just keep the spirit of the law. I don't worry about the letter." The letter is kindergarten. Everybody starts with the letter and then you move on and keep the spirit as well.
Hebrews 4, I do believe, is emphasizing the rest that we find in Christ but it does use the words there, "remains a Sabbath for the people of God," because there is still a Sabbath Day which talks about also our rest in Christ. Anything you want to add to that?
Pastor Ross: Well, I was just going to mention our website dealing with the subject of the Sabbath-
Pastor Doug: Good idea.
Pastor Ross: -sabbathtruth.org.
Pastor Doug: Just check that out, Mathew, anyone listening. Got a plethora of information there. An encyclopedia of information, sabbathtruth.com, sabbathtruth.org, same website and you'll find all kinds of information. You know what really makes me happy is, if you type in Sabbath Day to Google or Yahoo, praise God we are on the first page out of 91 million potential hits-
Pastor Ross: Amen. That's right.
Pastor Doug: -and so, that's a good website, friends.
Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Elijah, calling from Washington. Elijah, welcome to the program.
Elijah: Hi.
Pastor Doug: Hi. Your question tonight?
Elijah: My question is, I have heard of people say that Jesus is God and I just had a question about that. For one question, I wanted to say, Did Jesus pray to himself?
Pastor Doug: All right. Good question. Let's talk about that. Is Jesus God? First of all, when Jesus was on earth and he prayed to the Father-- God is composed of three persons. In the beginning, God said, "Let us make man in our image." Jesus, when he prayed, he prayed to God the Father. The Bible says that God the Father so loved the world, he gave his son in John 3:16. There's no problem with Jesus praying to God the Father because, Christ when he came into this world, God became a man. It's called the incarnation, so, that he could show us how to live and be an example.
Elijah, when you look at the definitions of God, the Bible says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Can you hear me?
Elijah: Yes.
Pastor Doug: All right. You remember that one? In the beginning, God created. Then you go to the New Testament, it says, "Everything that was created, was created by Jesus." So, if God created everything and it says Jesus created everything, Jesus must be God. In the 10 commandments, it tells us to worship God only, but in the New Testament, we see that they were worshipping Jesus. So, Jesus must be God.
Bible says only God can forgive sin, but Jesus forgave sin. The Bible tells us that only God can read a person's mind. And yet, all through the ministry of Jesus, he knew what people were thinking. Since we've sinned against God, the only one who could pay the penalty for our sin is the one who wrote the law that we broke, and that would be God. Jesus made all things, including the 10 commandments. So, yes, Jesus is God. Now, does that help at all?
Elijah: Yes, but I was still wondering. Where did you get all that information? Did you get it from Bible?
Pastor Doug: Yes. Matter of fact, to tell you what I'll do, is I've got a book that I've written on it. It's a subject called The Trinity, Is It Biblical? It talks about is Jesus God? There is a whole section in there, what does the Bible say, what are the scriptures that would prove that Jesus is God the son?I'll send you a free copy of that, Elijah. You just got to promise to read it, okay?
Pastor Ross: All right. The number to call Elijah is 1-800-835-6747 and ask for the book, The Trinity, Is It Biblical? We'll be sending that out. Tracy is calling from the Virgin Islands. Tracy, welcome to the program.
Tracy: Hi, good evening. Thank you for having me.
Pastor Doug: Hi. You're up late there, right now. But we're glad to have you call.
Tracy: Okay. Thank you. I have a question. It refers to the name Yahweh. I was listening to a host of some nights ago and he made mentioned that Yahweh is not God. But I've been reading before that where he said in different scriptures in Exodus 3:14 and so on, where he says, "He said to the people of Israel, Yahweh is the God of your ancestors. The God of Abraham and so on." So, I wanted to know is Yahweh a name that I should use to refer to God? Should I not because it's a different God? I'm kind of confused here.
Pastor Doug: Well, that's a good question and there is sort of an offshoot group of Christians that has made a big deal about the proper pronunciation of God's name, which is unfortunate because if you read the Bible, New and Old Testament, there are a multitude of names that God gives us to address Him. You have, of course, the sacred name of God we don't even know today. Even Jewish scholars are not exactly sure how to pronounce it.
Jehovah is one of the ways that we pronounce it in English. Yahweh is one way that they think is closer to the Hebrew. One question you need to ask is, does God want us to speak to him in Hebrew? Does God only speak Hebrew? The language that Adam and Eve spoke, was it Jewish? Or when the tower of Babel happened, did everybody's language get mixed up? When we pray, and we read the Bible in our language, but God is not only called Yahweh, he's called El Shaddai, he's called The Great Provider. Abraham referred to him God Almighty. His name is Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father.
Jesus goes by the names, Alpha, Omega, the door, the shepherd, the living water, the bread that came down, from everlasting to everlasting. I mean God's got so many different facets in his character that to narrow ourselves and say, "God is not going to answer our prayers unless we pronounce his name correctly," is almost spiritualistic. Because sometimes in the occult, they give you a special magic incantation. "You've got to say these magic words and pronounce them correctly or the spell will not work." God is not like that.
God is a heavenly father and if his children mispronounced his name or if we pronounce his name in our native tongue-- I still tease Pastor Ross because he's got a South African accent. He never had it until he came to America. But he does his best. I suppose when I go to South Africa they'll laugh at me. The idea that God is going to discount our prayers if we don't pronounce his name right is just really not Biblical.
Pastor Ross: We've got the principle in the scripture where it says, "Man looks at the outward but God looks at the heart." He knows the heart of the one who's praying to him.
Pastor Doug: Now, the sacred name of God which was composed of four letters, the Tetragrammaton, we don't even know now because it was so sacred they didn't utter it for hundreds of years, exactly how they pronounced those consonants. People go with anything from Jehovah to Yahweh, or some derivative of that. So, for us to get all twisted up about how to utter the exact name that God gave Moses at the burning bush, that's not the only name that God gave his prophets. He gave them several names to address him.
Now, I've got a free book I'll send you on this, Tracy, if you just ask for it. It's simply called The Name of God. I wrote it because of this question. It's called The Name of God. Call the number and we'll send that to you.
Pastor Ross: The number again, is 1-800-835-6747 and just ask for the book The Name of God and we'll be happy to send that out. Montoya is calling from Rhode Island. Montoya, welcome to the program. Montoya, are you there?
Montoya: Hi Pastor Ross, Pastor Doug. My question is about the health law in Leviticus 11. How much of that do we adhere to? I know the unclean, and clean animals are still binding but let's say a fisherman, should he use dead squid or dead shrimp to catch fish?
Pastor Doug: That's a good question. I don't know if I've been asked that. That is true that, let's suppose that you're going to catch a clean tuna fish to eat for dinner, a tuna fish will eat all kinds of things for bait. They could eat unsafe food for bait. Hopefully, you'll get the hook and that unclean food out of their mouth before you butcher them. Not too many people that would catch a tuna or any clean fish, that fish hasn't had a chance to digest whatever bait they hook them with, so I wouldn't worry about that being in the fillet when you cook it. That is an interesting question. Some clean fish do eat unclean foods.
Now, I don't eat any meat so I don't worry about that. I know that my soy beans aren't eating squid, so I'm safe. We do have a lesson that deals with-- To give you a straight answer, Montoya, I would say that if a person's going to eat tuna fish and they don't know what kind of bait was used to catch that tuna fish, I wouldn't worry about it because very seldom is the bait in the final product. That's an interesting question. We do have a lesson that deals with the health laws and it's called God's Health Plan. Hey, that's a good lesson for people today with all the talk about the health plan.
Pastor Ross: Absolutely. God’s Free Health Plan, it’s an amazing facts study guide. To receive it call 1-800-835-6747 and just ask for the study guide God's Free Health Plan.
Pastor Doug: This is probably a good point before we go to the next call to mention that Amazing Facts just completed a magazine that's called Amazing Health. This is something you'll have to go to and order from the website but it's been proven that the health crisis in North America could be dealt with with one of three things. If all three of these things were done the health crisis would be solved within a year. One of those things is, you need to get these deep pocket lawsuits that just push in the costs out into deep space. You've also got providing free unlimited health care for illegal immigrants.
The biggest thing that could be done is if people would follow the simple health principles in the Bible of exercise, proper diet, rest, fresh air, the stress, the heart disease, the obesity. That's what's filling hospitals, that's what's skyrocketing the costs. Instead of people spending the last 30 years of their dying because of bad health, they could die like Moses, climb a mountain and die.
If you want to see that magazine, it has the eight Bible secrets for longer, stronger life. Nobody is selling any products in this magazine. They are proven, medically documented facts that are supported by the Bible of how a person could have a longer stronger more abundant life. Go to the Amazing Facts website and look up the Amazing Health magazine. You'll find that very helpful.
Pastor Ross: That magazine Pastor Doug is getting a tremendous response from people. Like you said, it’s simple Bible-based principles that will enhance a person’s life.
Pastor Doug: Fully-illustrated documentation and they're flying off the shelves right now.
Pastor Ross: Our next caller is Brian and he's calling from Keene, Texas. Brian, welcome to the program.
Brian: Hello, I was wondering, your new movie the Cosmic Conflict depicts the creation after the fall. I was wondering how you defend this from scriptures.
Pastor Doug: That’s a good question and by the way for our, friends, Byron is talking about- or is it Brian?
Brian: Brian.
Pastor Doug: Brian is talking about the Cosmic Conflict. This is the newly released Amazing Facts DVD that talks about where did sin come from, the rebellion of Lucifer who later became the devil or Satan and how he tempted our first parents and brought the fall to this world. It illustrates all of that. When we studied-- when did Lucifer actually get evicted from heaven or cast out from heaven? When was this war that you read about in Revelation 12? We came to the conclusion that happened before our world was created.
For one thing, Jesus tells that illustration about when a demon is cast out he goes through desolate places looking for something new to inhabit. Well, when Lucifer was cast out of heaven he began then looking for worlds to continue his rebellion. We believe that rebellion happened prior to the creation of our world.
Pastor Ross: Of course, when Satan came to tempt Adam and Eve, he came to the garden that God had created. He was there, he was talking against God, he was lying about God. This rebellion that it started in heaven seemed to have reached at least a climax as far as heaven goes where the size were drawn.
Pastor Doug: Adam and Eve were so naïve it seems about what was going on that they probably were pretty new in their existence. They hadn't been around a long time to observe this rebellion.
Pastor Ross: Now, it also seems to indicate in the scripture. Well, it does that prior to Christ's death on Calvary, Satan had some type of limited access to heaven. Read about in the book of Joel. When Satan appeared before God sort of as the representative of earth but at the time of the crucifixion in Revelation chapter 12 it speaks about the adversary being cast out once and for all. It seems at that point Satan was bound to this earth. He was no longer the representative for mankind. Christ becomes a representative.
Pastor Doug: When Jesus died, he, in effect paid the ransom to redeem the world, he became the second Adam and successfully captured what the devil had taken. Now, the war is not over yet but the serpents received the deadly wound and he's not going to be healed. We have time for one more question, Pastor Ross, before we run out of airtime.
Pastor Ross: All right, let’s give it a try. We got Arnie who is calling from Colorado. Arnie, welcome to the program.
Arnie: Thanks for taking my call. My question is, would you please explain to me Hebrews 6:4-6 which seems to teach that it is impossible for a person who has a past aside from the Christian faith to be saved?
Pastor Doug: Yes, very quickly, if you read that at first blush without looking at the other verses, a person could get discouraged but then when you see the stories of people like Peter who denied Christ but of course was forgiven or David who went got no into not only adultery but murder who was also forgiven, then you are given courage that there are people who backslide and return. The history of Israel is one of backsliding sometimes for years. God would forgive them and woo them back again.
Paul is describing the condition of someone who has received the best that God has to offer and if they are not satisfied with that, it's basically saying what more is God going to give them. Look at the words that are used. "They were enlightened, they've tasted the heavenly gift, they've made partakers of the Holy Ghost, they've tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come." If they follow- in other words, if they turn their back on that and that's not adequate, then nothing is ever going to capture their attention again. Yes, a person can backslide and return to the Lord. Lots of scriptures on that but it is very dangerous. Some people do backslide and they don't return.
Arnie: Well, I feel much better. I was a little depressed about that for a minute. I have backslided a few times.
Pastor Doug: The very fact that the Holy Spirit is speaking to you right now, Arnie, is evidence that he is still working in your life. Hey, friends, we apologize that we've run out of time for this broadcast. You can keep studying with us at amazingfacts.org. You can even listen to some archives of our more popular Bible questions by going there, it’s amazingfacts.org. Don't forget, we want to get your feedback on the new website which is Bibleprophecytruth.com. Let us know what you think about this new beta version. We’re making improvements and upgrades all along the way and we’re going to launch this in a big way soon. That’s bibleprophecytruth.com.
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